Tesla Warranty

adorshki

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OK even though there've been some legitimate reasons for concern recently, what with mudslides, earthquakes, and members' health issues, it's still been kinda dead around the forum, as somebody else mentioned.
So I thought it might be time to start another "warranty" thread:

From a transcript of a segment in the March 30 2014 installment of 60 Minutes, an interview with Elon Musk, founder of Tesla Motors:

"What's important to Musk is reducing greenhouse gases which he believes threaten the world. The Tesla will go about 250 miles on a charge. And Musk is building a network of charging stations where the driver pays nothing for a fill up. He hopes to make the stations largely solar powered one day."

Elon Musk: You can drive for free, forever, on pure sunlight. That's the, you know, message we're trying to convey. So even if, like, there's a zombie apocalypse and the grid breaks down, you'll still be able to charge your car.

Scott Pelley: So there's a zombie apocalypse warranty?

Elon Musk: Yes, exactly.


I wish I could make this stuff up.

:biggrin-new:
 

walrus

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Maybe a zombie version of Nikola Tesla himself...

walrus
 

adorshki

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but who'd be around to honor it?
TOUCHE! LOL!
I gotta admit, "malapropo-isms" aside, I gotta lotta respeck fer Mr. Musk, especially for founding Space-X, an enterprise truly near and dear to my heart.
He could well be the Henry Ford of the 21st century.
 

FNG

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I've always wondered why someone who can afford a 85,000 dollar car that can only go about 250 miles or so would need state and federal tax credits.
 

adorshki

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Assuming the car he is driving doesn't catch fire first.

Let's compare percentage of Teslas which have caught fire to percentage of GM's recalled for ignition switch problems.
(But hey it's good to see you back Ridge!! I realize you might just be pokin' the ribs a little bit)
Honestly though, as much as I might admire Mr. Musk for some of his accomplishments, I'm not fully satisfied yet that the manufacture of batteries might not be more ecologically destructive than the problem it's supposed to cure.
Speakin' of fires though, I'm startin' to get a little nervous about feedin' another bonfire thread here, but hey it's the weekend comin' up, all the good stuff always happens on the weekends, right?
:excitement:
 

twocorgis

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I've always wondered why someone who can afford a 85,000 dollar car that can only go about 250 miles or so would need state and federal tax credits.

Maybe because electric car technology is something that should be cultivated to try to do something to address our fossil fuel addiction? With economies of scale, that same car wouldn't cost anywhere near $85,000.
 

FNG

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If a 85000 dollar electric car that can only go 250 miles is such a good idea, then why can't it stand on it's own merits? Why do we give tax credits to people who don't need them so they will buy a product that at the current time isn't a practical option to the vast majority of car buyers?

Maybe we should force everyone to buy a Tesla so they can produce enough end units so that your economy of scale point would be come relevant.

Musk is a smart guy, but since his product can't compete in the open market, he wants the government to distort the market in his favor. So when he doesn't get his way, he comes off as a bit of a whiner.
 

FNG

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And the last car I would want in a zombie apocolypse is a Tesla. Warranty or not.
 

walrus

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Using the same "why give tax credits" logic for Tesla, one could wonder why we bailed out GM. Why give citizen's tax money to ANY of these auto manufacturers? Let the market decide..

How about a tax credit for guitars? Now there's something I can get behind!

walrus
 

adorshki

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If a 85000 dollar electric car that can only go 250 miles is such a good idea, then why can't it stand on it's own merits? Why do we give tax credits to people who don't need them so they will buy a product that at the current time isn't a practical option to the vast majority of car buyers?
Effin, out here in California, every car that's got hybrid or fossil-fuel free technology gets a tax credit. Tesla ain't gettin' no special treatment.
And I think I'd rather see this model in action than the one that let Solyndra go under, takin' 500 million of taxpayer-backed debt with it.

Musk is a smart guy, but since his product can't compete in the open market, he wants the government to distort the market in his favor. So when he doesn't get his way, he comes off as a bit of a whiner.

I don't know where you're gettin' that from ("not getting his way"?), but from readin' this (more from the transcript) it looks to me like he's tryin' to make his money "the old fashioned way" (earning it):
(all bolds mine to highlight relevant points-Al)


"In that office, Musk invented a program that gave step by step directions between addresses. That's common today in cars and phones but in 1995 it was magic. In four years he made $22 million.
Scott Pelley: Only in America.
Elon Musk: Right, only in America. Absolutely.
Next, he started an online banking firm that he grew into PayPal, a system for making purchases on the Internet.
Scott Pelley: And you sold PayPal to eBay for what?
Elon Musk: It was about $1.5 billion. So that-- that was-- it was a good outcome.
Scott Pelley: A good outcome?
Elon Musk: Yes.
His share was $180 million and he bet it all on Tesla and SpaceX. But at the age of 37, he hit rock bottom. His first rockets failed to reach orbit, and an early model Tesla roadster had quality problems.
Scott Pelley: In 2008, the rocket company is not going well, you've had three failures.
Elon Musk: Right.
Scott Pelley: The car company is hemorrhaging money--
Elon Musk: Yeah.
Scott Pelley: and the American economy has tanked in the worst recession since the Great Depression.
Elon Musk: Right.

That terrible year was captured in a documentary called "Revenge of the Electric Car." His plant was filled with flawed cars that couldn't be delivered.

["Revenge of the Electric Car:" Holy mackerel. Jesus! We have like an army of cars here. Like, Jesus! This is frightening. It's really pedal to the metal here. I mean, each month that passes is literally costs us tens of million of dollars we need to appreciate that.]

To save Tesla, Musk needed millions more from investors. His fortune was gone.
Elon Musk: When we'd call people and say, "Hey, would you like to invest?," they'd be angry that we just called. That it's like-- it's not like no-- no and-- no and-- you know, various expletives.
Scott Pelley: He was essentially broke.
Kimbal Musk: Oh yeah. In debt. More than broke.
Scott Pelley: More than broke.
Kimbal Musk: Yeah.
Elon Musk: I remember waking up the Sunday before Christmas in 2008, and thinking to myself, "Man, I never thought I was someone who could ever be capable of a nervous breakdown," but I felt, "This is the closest I've ever come." 'Cause it-- it seemed pretty-- pretty dark.
Toward the end of 2008, SpaceX prepared its fourth attempt.
Elon Musk: We were running on fumes at that point we had virtually no money.
Scott Pelley: So a fourth failure?
Elon Musk: A fourth failure would have been absolutely game over.
Scott Pelley: Done.
Elon Musk: Done.
Scott Pelley: SpaceX bankrupt...
Elon Musk: Yeah. It's bad enough to have three strikes, having four strikes is really kaput.
But flight four was flawless and in Musk's world, it lit the darkness.
Then, as often, the week of Christmas became a time when little boy dreams are answered.
Elon Musk: NASA called and told us that we'd won a $1.5 billion CONTRACT. And I couldn't even hold the phone, I just blurted out, "I love you guys."
Scott Pelley: They saved you.
Elon Musk: Yeah, they did.
Scott Pelley: So you were saved in the period of three days by two completely unexpected events.Elon Musk: Yeah.
Scott Pelley: Merry Christmas.
Elon Musk: Yeah, absolutely. That's for sure.
The rockets haven't failed since. His cargo capsule has docked three times with the space station. And in the California plant they're fitting seats for what they hope will be eventual manned missions. SpaceX is also testing a rocket that can be reused, softly landing on a column of flame. Another step on a longer journey.

Elon Musk: I'd love to have SpaceX be the company that brings humanity to Mars and I hope I see it while I'm still alive."


But hey this is all just for the sake of giving Musk a "fair hearing".
And by the way, link to complete interview here:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-and-spacex-elon-musks-industrial-empire/
Personally I wouldn't want to own a Tesla either, because although I think they're gorgeous, the weight of the car actually makes 'em handle pretty poorly by my standards, and charging would be a PITA in any case.
"Just sayin"
:wink:
 
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adorshki

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Maybe because electric car technology is something that should be cultivated to try to do something to address our fossil fuel addiction?
EXACTLY. Sooner or later, fossil fuels are gone, period.
Are we just supposed to wait until then before we start trying to come up with an alternative?
Like it or not, the guvvamint's trying to nurse along many new technologies from many sources.
Like Sandy said, at least somebody's doing something.
I can't fault the principle no matter what I might think of the method.
:tranquillity:
 

FNG

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Effin, out here in California, every car that's got hybrid or fossil-fuel free technology gets a tax credit. Tesla ain't gettin' no special treatment.
And I think I'd rather see this model in action than the one that let Solyndra go under, takin' 500 million of taxpayer-backed debt with it.



I don't know where you're gettin' that from ("not getting his way"?), but from readin' this (more from the transcript) it looks to me like he's tryin' to make his money "the old fashioned way" (earning it):
(all bolds mine to highlight relevant points-Al)


"In that office, Musk invented a program that gave step by step directions between addresses. That's common today in cars and phones but in 1995 it was magic. In four years he made $22 million.
Scott Pelley: Only in America.
Elon Musk: Right, only in America. Absolutely.
Next, he started an online banking firm that he grew into PayPal, a system for making purchases on the Internet.
Scott Pelley: And you sold PayPal to eBay for what?
Elon Musk: It was about $1.5 billion. So that-- that was-- it was a good outcome.
Scott Pelley: A good outcome?
Elon Musk: Yes.
His share was $180 million and he bet it all on Tesla and SpaceX. But at the age of 37, he hit rock bottom. His first rockets failed to reach orbit, and an early model Tesla roadster had quality problems.
Scott Pelley: In 2008, the rocket company is not going well, you've had three failures.
Elon Musk: Right.
Scott Pelley: The car company is hemorrhaging money--
Elon Musk: Yeah.
Scott Pelley: and the American economy has tanked in the worst recession since the Great Depression.
Elon Musk: Right.

That terrible year was captured in a documentary called "Revenge of the Electric Car." His plant was filled with flawed cars that couldn't be delivered.

["Revenge of the Electric Car:" Holy mackerel. Jesus! We have like an army of cars here. Like, Jesus! This is frightening. It's really pedal to the metal here. I mean, each month that passes is literally costs us tens of million of dollars we need to appreciate that.]

To save Tesla, Musk needed millions more from investors. His fortune was gone.
Elon Musk: When we'd call people and say, "Hey, would you like to invest?," they'd be angry that we just called. That it's like-- it's not like no-- no and-- no and-- you know, various expletives.
Scott Pelley: He was essentially broke.
Kimbal Musk: Oh yeah. In debt. More than broke.
Scott Pelley: More than broke.
Kimbal Musk: Yeah.
Elon Musk: I remember waking up the Sunday before Christmas in 2008, and thinking to myself, "Man, I never thought I was someone who could ever be capable of a nervous breakdown," but I felt, "This is the closest I've ever come." 'Cause it-- it seemed pretty-- pretty dark.
Toward the end of 2008, SpaceX prepared its fourth attempt.
Elon Musk: We were running on fumes at that point we had virtually no money.
Scott Pelley: So a fourth failure?
Elon Musk: A fourth failure would have been absolutely game over.
Scott Pelley: Done.
Elon Musk: Done.
Scott Pelley: SpaceX bankrupt...
Elon Musk: Yeah. It's bad enough to have three strikes, having four strikes is really kaput.
But flight four was flawless and in Musk's world, it lit the darkness.
Then, as often, the week of Christmas became a time when little boy dreams are answered.
Elon Musk: NASA called and told us that we'd won a $1.5 billion CONTRACT. And I couldn't even hold the phone, I just blurted out, "I love you guys."
Scott Pelley: They saved you.
Elon Musk: Yeah, they did.
Scott Pelley: So you were saved in the period of three days by two completely unexpected events.Elon Musk: Yeah.
Scott Pelley: Merry Christmas.
Elon Musk: Yeah, absolutely. That's for sure.
The rockets haven't failed since. His cargo capsule has docked three times with the space station. And in the California plant they're fitting seats for what they hope will be eventual manned missions. SpaceX is also testing a rocket that can be reused, softly landing on a column of flame. Another step on a longer journey.

Elon Musk: I'd love to have SpaceX be the company that brings humanity to Mars and I hope I see it while I'm still alive."


But hey this is all just for the sake of giving Musk a "fair hearing".
And by the way, link to complete interview here:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-and-spacex-elon-musks-industrial-empire/
Personally I wouldn't want to own a Tesla either, because although I think they're gorgeous, the weight of the car actually makes 'em handle pretty poorly by my standards, and charging would be a PITA in any case.
"Just sayin"
:wink:

Tesla is able to manufacture his vehicles without any usage of fossil fuels? You said the Tesla car is a "fossil fuel-free" technology, and I'd say it isn't.

I admire his spunk, but when he runs against government distortions in the market that don't serve his purposes, he whines. He is all for government distortions, as long as they are in his favor.
 

bluesypicky

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Using the same "why give tax credits" logic for Tesla, one could wonder why we bailed out GM. Why give citizen's tax money to ANY of these auto manufacturers? Let the market decide.. walrus

Ahhhhh.... a fun thread. Thanks Al for reviving LTG!! I was starting to miss offending round here, I knew I could count on ya! :nevreness:

How about the bankers bailout hmmm? Wanna talk 'bout them bankers?.....
As far as GM, the only thing that makes me glad we bailed them out so far is the C7. :playful:
The funny thing is I spent about 3 hours at a GM dealer this afternoon, thinking I was gonna trade my 2005 C6 for an 08 with 15000 miles, and after agreeing on a number (a really friendly one I must add), we pulled the car out of the showroom for the test drive before signing the papers.
Well that made me feel like crap to have to tell them "thanks but no thanks" after working them so hard on the price, but the car simply didn't feel anywhere as tight as my 05, probably due to the Z51 package and the stiffer suspensions, better brakes and steering.
Shame really, the car was pristine and looked so sharp, but these things are all about the fun driving them.
Oh! and before I get bashed for ruining the ozone: I get 28mpg on cruise control at 79mph with my C6. :surprise:

So, how many tanks of gas would I have to save to break even with the purchase of a Tesla?
As Al alluded earlier, it is suggested that the Tesla’s price and its fossil fuel footprint make the issue of transportation and related environmental efficiencies put forth by the concept, a distraction. For now.

With all that said I entirely agree that something must be done to replace these fossil fuels now.
All of us here could live happy without worrying about it, but that would be terribly selfish for the generations to come.

So I agree with Al (you don't say! :playful:) that the guvmint is doing the right thing by at least approaching the subject, and attempting to work on an energy source transition.

In the meantime, I'll hurry up and have fun with my 400+ HP as long as I can! :excitement:
 

FNG

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EXACTLY. Sooner or later, fossil fuels are gone, period.
Are we just supposed to wait until then before we start trying to come up with an alternative?
Like it or not, the guvvamint's trying to nurse along many new technologies from many sources.
Like Sandy said, at least somebody's doing something.
I can't fault the principle no matter what I might think of the method.
:tranquillity:

The reality...the hard cold reality, is that alternative fuels are not feasible at this time. The batteries aren't good enough, wind farms kill more birds annually and most likely will devastate raptor populations, especially if they continue to grow in numbers, wind farms are ugly, instrusive, solar works only on the fringes, wind/solar farms work in remote areas if they can get environmental approval for construction much less approval for construction of transmission systems, nuclear isn't an option, and the beat goes on.

The hard cold reality is that we need bridge fuels that get us from the current technology to a technological state that will actually support our power needs. Why is there such resistance from certain groups about the expansion of natural gas production and usage? It's much cleaner, we have so much that it will take centuries to use, and can provide the power we need now to meet our power needs until the technology matures enough to actually be able to take it's place.

I hear all the time about how we need more manufacturing jobs, and then from the same mouths how the technological improvements in the production of a bridge fuel like natural gas are the end of mankind. Then are strangely silent when the government issues kill permits for bald eagles to wind farms.

I do get a kick out of the people who run our government take credit for the boom in natural gas production. Not sure how they are able to do that with a straight face. The "government" is not trying to nurse along technologies that work now in the scale we need to bridge the gap until technology matures and becomes viable on the needed scale.
 

adorshki

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Tesla is able to manufacture his vehicles without any usage of fossil fuels? You said the Tesla car is a "fossil fuel-free" technology, and I'd say it isn't.
According to your definition you're right. BUT I was only saying that they're getting the same treatment as anybody else who makes what the gummint defines as a fossil-fuel free/alternative power vehicle.
And actually it seems like EVERY maker's got a hybrid at least, these days.
The reality...the hard cold reality, is that alternative fuels are not feasible at this time. The batteries aren't good enough...
Well, I already said I got my own reservations about the batteries, but still, to me the qualifier in that statement is "at this time".
I'm still at "it's better to start working on something now, than nothing".
For the sake of keeping the conversation uncomplicated I'll accept your assertions about how long what we have will last without challenging you on sources, but I get where you're coming from a whole lot better from the rest of the post, and even agree with a lot of it.
 

adorshki

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Ahhhhh.... a fun thread. Thanks Al for reviving LTG!! I was starting to miss offending round here, I knew I could count on ya! :nevreness:
Uh-oh........

The funny thing is I spent about 3 hours at a GM dealer this afternoon, thinking I was gonna trade my 2005 C6 for an 08 with 15000 miles, and after agreeing on a number (a really friendly one I must add), we pulled the car out of the showroom for the test drive before signing the papers.
I'm flabbergasted. They did it exactly backwards, unless the problem was that they wanted to be sure you could afford their precious little gem before they actually let you "have a taste".
Which, as you've seen, is pointless if you don't actually like the car.
When I sold cars (and Corvettes were no exception), I couldn't even START to work a deal unless the customer had driven the car already....coulda saved ya BOTH a LOT of time, so DON'T feel guilty.
All of us here could live happy without worrying about it, but that would be terribly selfish for the generations to come.
Yeah, but what have they ever done for us?
In the meantime, I'll hurry up and have fun with my 400+ HP as long as I can! :excitement:
Oh c'mon, you know horsepower's just a number and torque is what really gets ya outta the gate, and with an electric motor you could get thousands of foot-pounds of torque at as little as 1 rpm!
Now we just gotta figure out a way to make the suckers light enough to beat one of those pesky lime-green shirted cyclists around a corner.
Or at least your Deux Chevaux.
Or a Renault, even.
 
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bluesypicky

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I'm flabbergasted. They did it exactly backwards, unless the problem was that they wanted to be sure you could afford their precious little gem before they actually let you "have a taste".
Which, as you've seen, is pointless if you don't actually like the car.
When I sold cars (and Corvettes were no exception), I couldn't even START to work a deal unless the customer had driven the car already....coulda saved ya BOTH a LOT of time, so DON'T feel guilty.

Yup. I was disappointed when I got there and saw it in the showroom.... wish it had been on the lot, ready to take out on the road.
It was definitely backwards, and they knew it too... they had a very cool and understanding reaction when I apologized for not having been sold by the test ride. So no harm done.

Yeah, but what have they ever done for us?

Come to think of it, you're right. The little bastards..... let's use the left over fuel and let'em worry about it!

Oh c'mon, you know horsepower's just a number and torque is what really gets ya outta the gate.

And that was another turn off. The A6 transmission on the 2008 gives less of a "pull" effect when you gun it, than the A4 I'm used to, which feels much "torquier".

Or a Renault, even.

Now don't be silly. You know it's impossible.
 

FNG

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Ahhhhh.... a fun thread. Thanks Al for reviving LTG!! I was starting to miss offending round here, I knew I could count on ya! :nevreness:

How about the bankers bailout hmmm? Wanna talk 'bout them bankers?.....
As far as GM, the only thing that makes me glad we bailed them out so far is the C7. :playful:
The funny thing is I spent about 3 hours at a GM dealer this afternoon, thinking I was gonna trade my 2005 C6 for an 08 with 15000 miles, and after agreeing on a number (a really friendly one I must add), we pulled the car out of the showroom for the test drive before signing the papers.
Well that made me feel like crap to have to tell them "thanks but no thanks" after working them so hard on the price, but the car simply didn't feel anywhere as tight as my 05, probably due to the Z51 package and the stiffer suspensions, better brakes and steering.
Shame really, the car was pristine and looked so sharp, but these things are all about the fun driving them.
Oh! and before I get bashed for ruining the ozone: I get 28mpg on cruise control at 79mph with my C6. :surprise:

So, how many tanks of gas would I have to save to break even with the purchase of a Tesla?
As Al alluded earlier, it is suggested that the Tesla’s price and its fossil fuel footprint make the issue of transportation and related environmental efficiencies put forth by the concept, a distraction. For now.

With all that said I entirely agree that something must be done to replace these fossil fuels now.
All of us here could live happy without worrying about it, but that would be terribly selfish for the generations to come.

So I agree with Al (you don't say! :playful:) that the guvmint is doing the right thing by at least approaching the subject, and attempting to work on an energy source transition.

In the meantime, I'll hurry up and have fun with my 400+ HP as long as I can! :excitement:
Why didn't you shop a Volt or a hybrid?
 
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