50th Anniversary D-55 - Should I or not?

Greetings all. Newbie to this forum but a longtime big big fan of Guild. Due in no small part to the latest FMIC boner my search for a New Hartford D-55 has taken many turns, one which has led me to a "new" 50th Anniversary Brazillian piece. As the story goes, a Guild dealer somewhere in the corn belt had ordered one, never sold it, and is willing to part with it for no more than I would pay for a standard sunburst piece. I don't know this dealer but this comes to me via an extremely trustworthy source (whom I do know). Just wondering if the experts here have had any good, bad, or indifferent experience with these things. Being a Westerly bigot I'm not sure If I should be concerned that these guitars were built in Corona or not. No intention to insult here or start another thread on which factory produced the best pieces but Guilds have been so scarce around me for so long I've never seen a Corona built - or even a Tacoma built guitar for that matter. That aside, any opinions or comments from folks who know Guilds would be warmly received and much appreciated. This upcoming purchase, whatever Guild it may be will bring me "full circle" with where I started playing on a '71 D-35.

Cheers all

C4

I saw one in San Jose, at Guitar Showcase, it's still for sale there, the owner has it on display in the store since he bought it new. He was asking $8995. I didn't play it as I didn't want to touch such a show piece, it's behind glass and I didn't bother to ask to play it. Not sure if Al ever played it, he is a resident there.

Actually 6L6 played it: http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/sh...versary-D-55&p=1305068&viewfull=1#post1305068

Go to minute 3:48 to see the #1 of 50 in San Jose in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pVxGqdRuvo

Ralf

HI Jimmy welcome aboard!
"Coronas don't get no respeck' ", but my Havens signature D40e has every bit the build quality of my 2 Westerlys. On the other hand, I also used to call it "sonic runt" of the litter, only recently do I think it's coming into its own.
It definitely has a "C" profile neck (thick in my relatively small hands).
The lacquer's thicker than Westerly but smoother, and feels a bit harder, but it is NCL. For some reason it has a slightly oversize bridge and saddle (Maybe because of UST?), and I mounted the second 'guard. Those little things might add up, muting the volume slightly, but it does have excellent clarity.
I'd expect a 50th Anni D55 to show the same if not better build quality, and "FWIW", the first one is listed at $8995.00 for the last couple of years at Guitar Showcase here in San Jose. Apparently the Showcase owner had a good relationship with Fender's boss at the time and managed to snag it new as an authorized dealer, it's not a used piece.
My personal guess is that it's priced that way because he really doesn't want to sell it, and maybe for insurance purposes as well?
Ahh I see Ralf posted while I was composing:
I also never asked to play since I had no intention (or ability) to purchase. Like Ralf, it was out of respect to leave the guitar as "mint" as possible.
I do remember that #1 was advertised at location other than Showcase a while back, but I think something's not right about those other ads. As far as I know Showcase still has the guitar. (Will call and check and update if they don't.)
Hope that helps!

Deleted.
Ralf

WELCOME TO LTG, c4!
You're already in good hands with Ralf and Al so I'll just move along, but keep in mind that there's nothing wrong with being a "Westerly bigot" around here. As a member of this forum, you won't be alone. :rugby:

Stick around and enjoy,
Joe

SFIV1967 said:

Al: Our posts crossed each other, look at my question to you.
Ralf

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I think it's answered in an edit (I never played it either)
About " prototype", I don't consider a prototype to be a true "#1" of an actual production run, even though that seller is trying to make it appear that way. Note even the s/n on that guitar has a "P" prefix. In my opinion that means even Guild is making the distinction clear.

adorshki said:

About " prototype", I don't consider a prototype to be a true "#1" of an actual production run...

Click to expand...

I wasn't sure about this as well. However my Orpheum 12 string was called "The prototype" by multiple people in FMIC/Guild, it was the first ever made by Ren Ferguson and was shown at NAMM and Musikmesse 2014, even if it was later officially sold as new (confirmed by FMIC/Guild) to me in Germany by a store who bought it at Musikmesse in Frankfurt. It's also not marked as prototype but in fact it was the prototype according FMIC/Guild managers.
Ralf

Hey, Ralf, I think your Orpheum 12 is rather unusual that way. Prototypes are not usually sold as part of a series (or sold at all, for that matter), and indeed they are usually marked as prototypes. I'm personally aware of D-55 prototypes (plural) and F-212XL prototypes (at least one) that match what I just described. There were probably prototypes of all the models that New Hartford eventually built.

I suspect that since the Orpheums were truly custom-made under Ren's direct supervision, I suppose this distinction was dropped. Your "prototype" truly is #1 in the line.

chazmo said:

There were probably prototypes of all the models that New Hartford eventually built.

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Agreed, but for the Orpheums at least in 2013 most of them with the blue rosette were not really intended for resale but were stored all over the place (NH and Scottsdale) and were only sold after the sale of Guild to CMG. In case of the 2014 models that somehow changed as Thomann officially bought that "number 1" from Guild, and "Musikmesse" was between 4/15-4/18, just before the sale was announced on 5/6. But maybe they knew what is coming and knew they won't need that "prototype" again. (which is still interesting in case that Oxnard continues making the 12 string). And we don't even know if there were not any changes between my number one and your one for instance. (which I doubt there are).
Ralf

All true, Ralf! Yes, I remember those original blue rosettes. I guess those guitars could've been viewed as prototypes for the first Orpheums... On the other hand, those could just be viewed as early examples of the series. Do you know if they were sold as prototypes or just as regular models?

As far as the Orpheum 12 goes, I feel this all boils down to the same conclusion for me: there were no prototypes of the Orpheum 12. They may call yours a prototype because it was shown around at the shows, but it really was just the first in the series. That's just my take of course, Ralf. If there really were no spec changes between your #1 and my later version, I think my conclusion is fair.

SFIV1967 said:

It's also not marked as prototype but in fact it was the prototype according FMIC/Guild managers.
Ralf

Click to expand...

I wonder if this is another case of "casual usage" of the term "prototype", and maybe what they called "prototype" was actually the "first article" ?
When I was in a business (plastic moldings) where these distinctions mattered, a "prototype" was generally a hand-crafted article, to give preliminary definition to physical dimensions/characteristics/capabilities, and explore production feasibility.
A "first article" was produced using the actual production process to ensure production was feasible and the article performed according to design specs.

chazmo said:

Do you know if they were sold as prototypes or just as regular models?

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Excellent question! The blue rosette models were actually marked "Prototype" but they were sold as B-stock.

adorshki said:

I wonder if this is another case of "casual usage" of the term "prototype", and maybe what they called "prototype" was actually the "first article" ?.

Click to expand...

Al: Agreed as well. Here is the original e-mail I got from "the responsible man" at Guild: "Our records show that your guitar was the first one made of this model; it’s the prototype, and we showed it at Winter NAMM in Anaheim before sending it to Messe. I’d assume that Thomann bought it there."

Ralf

If the one your looking at is anything like the one at Guitar Showcase I played, you can't miss. Beautiful instrument!

Bill

A simple welcome is it for me, c4! Welcome!

walrus

I have a question. What is the difference between a "prototype" and the first in a series? I know that I once owned a prototype which now resides in Australia and remember discussing it with Hans when he informed me that back then at least (it was an 80's guitar) there could have been more than one prototype. Does "prototype" imply a work in progress? Maybe a first stab at a model that may be improved upon before going into production? Or is a prototype the very first guitar/guitars in a series for production?

West

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototype

Joe

I think there could be multiple guitar prototypes, as for instance one could be built with Bracing A and the second with Bracing B. Now they look the same from the outside but might sound different and one of the two might make it in mass production. But both were prototypes. The one not going into production would end up in the factory museum and the one that goes in production could be either go there as well or will be sold. That's how I would see it.
Now in the case of my 12 string maybe Ren Ferguson was so convinced that he built a great first one that there were no changes necessary at all, so he didn't call it prototype on the label (like the blue rosette models) but gave it a regular production serial number and out the door it went. Nevertheless in theory it was the prototype as no other 12 string Orpheum was assembled before. In terms of the 2013 Orpheums they were all changed from blue rosette to brown rosette after the prototype. Hence the prototypes were marked "prototype".
Ralf

My personal highlight from LMG III and the reason I am not in the group picture is that I asked Darrin (plant engineer) something about his tooling and ended up getting a tour of his workshop and the room where they kept the prototypes. As he explained it the prototypes were one of a kind instruments made to see what was feasible in terms of their production line and process. For example, someone said "Let's make a bass". So they did. Lessons were learned so they made another one. Let's try the bass with this wood (Koa, perhaps) so they did. These all preceded the first production B-54 bass, but there were differences (some consumer visible, some not) between these instruments and the production instruments. There were similar stories about the other instruments in the room as well as failed experiments kept as cautionary tales and instruments that illustrated the effect of various CNC decisions. But these were being kept for research purposes and there was no expectation of selling them to the general public as production quality or specification instruments.

Prior to Ren Ferguson I think it is safe to generalize and say that Guild did not generally sell prototypes to the public and when they did there was something in the serial number that indicated the prototype status. From Ralf's story and others I expect that Ren Ferguson kept making guitars and the first one he liked that came close to or met the published specs was sold as production #1. It would not surprise me if that guitar had started out as a prototype in someone's mind and they were all pleasantly surprised when it was suitable for sale.

I think too many people focus on the serial number or the alleged "prototype" status and not the specs of the instrument or the instrument itself but no one is putting me In Charge so I will just ahve to deal with that

Back to the topic at hand, if you have a chance to buy a 50th Anniversary D55 for the price of a regular D55, I'd probably jump at it. You won't find a better rosewood dread and that limited edition has some value. Corona Guilds are great guitars. Even Westerly created some duds as a few on this board will attest. If I was ordering over the internet, I'd probably want a return policy that was fair, if I couldn't see and play the guitar myself. That seems to be the safest way.

Welcome to the forum, C4!! Good luck with your purchase and keep us posted on your status. :encouragement:

I've played one and it was pretty sweet. Worth a look if the price was right.