Newark Street Starfire Pickups

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I'm not getting on you brotha! The point is, the pickup specs were screwed up by Fender. CMG is going to correct this. And that's fine. The reason I agitate is because I want Guild to be successful. I care about this because, regardless of whether the kids know or not, the lead pup is awful compared to what it should be. It's not a good sounding pickup.

It's only that I want Guild to rule the world. ;-)
 

guildman63

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I'm with you on all that, Steve. Just playing devils advocate here and trying to suggest other explanations for what has happened. I am interested to play the Starfire IV that comes out under CMG and directly compare it to a pre-CMG version. If it were me makIng the decisions in Oxnard I don't know that I would necessarily highlight the weak lead pickup on the pre-CMG Starfire, because some may actually prefer it, and it just draws more negative attention to Guild and potentially hurts sales of both old and new Starfires. I would, however, be sure that the issue was resolved going forward. We can only hope that is what will happen, but time will tell.
 

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IIRC, there was a vendor on EBay offering rewinding services for Guild right after the NS line debuted. Can't find a listing for it. They were in Great Britain, iirc.
 

SFIV1967

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Kapten Kork

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Anyone know where to buy theese pickups. Or anyone here that dislike them so much that they want to get rid of them?
 

griehund

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Wondering if these would fit?

Seymour Duncan mini Antiquity II

8.1 b 6.7 n
antiquity II™
mini-humbuckers
width: 1.086
length: 2.577
max height with leg: .842
mounting ring width: .1365
mounting ring length: 3.365
mounting ring max height: .631
minimal height: n/a
adjustable pole piece length: .750
height adj. screw height: 3/8" round-head slotted ms
magnet calibration: S-adj. side
magnet gauss: 15/20 gauss
DC Ohms: 6.7K neck, 8.1K bridge
 
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Has anybody tried changing out the magnets in any of these pick ups? I have a pair of the re-issue Franz pick ups and I would think this may help to lower the output. I have never swapped out magnets but there are many types of magnets available at very minimal cost. How about just unwinding some of the wire off the coils? Again I have never tried this my self but if one was thinking about having the picks re-wound what do you have to lose anyway?
Thanks John
 

Zelja

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Has anybody tried changing out the magnets in any of these pick ups? I have a pair of the re-issue Franz pick ups and I would think this may help to lower the output. I have never swapped out magnets but there are many types of magnets available at very minimal cost. How about just unwinding some of the wire off the coils? Again I have never tried this my self but if one was thinking about having the picks re-wound what do you have to lose anyway?
Thanks John
I have done this with the re-issue Franz pickups on my NS M-75. rewound to different specs & magnets swapped as well, most notably narrower magnets on the neck pickup. On the vintage Franz in my X-50, the magnets are noticeably narrower than on the re-issues. Note, I also think that it's not just the DC resistance or the number of turns which is important (though the latter would be a more meaningful metric but that's hardly ever provided) but also the way the coil is wound (e.g. hand scatterwound vs machine wound) makes a big difference.
 

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See the official Guild blog post here.

I'm going to copy/paste the text of this blog post for posterity. The guild website has been wiped clean so many times.

A Deeper Look at the Starfire Pickup
January 29, 2015/in Product News /
When developing the Newark St. Series Starfire guitars, we wanted to recreate the magic that was found in a handful of original pickups we came across. A large number of guitars were meticulously tested and compared in order to find the most awe-inspiring pickups with that magical sound. Sure, we tested numbers and metrics along the way, but our primary driver in selecting the pickups to recreate was our ears. In the end, we chose the best sounding pickups that we could find and replicated them with the utmost care and detail.

The Starfire’s LB-1 Little Bucker pickup sits somewhere between a mini-bucker and a full size humbucker. Tonally, it’s got a little more jangle and a little more air then a traditional humbucker. The resistance and inductance of these pickups sit comfortably between a typical single coil and a typical PAF style humbucker – contributing to the airy nature of the pickup without compromising its warmth and hum-free output.

Recently, we’ve been asked why our Starfire pickups have a lower resistance measurement in the bridge pickup than measures in the neck pickup. While we understand why this question is asked (because many people use the resistance to measure pickup output), measuring output with resistance alone fails to account for a multitude of impacting factors.

Guitar pickups can be measured a few different ways: resistance (ohms K), inductance (Henries) and output in millivolts are all typical measurements. While any of these measurements can give you a ball park estimate of your pickup output (when compared to another identical pickup), they don’t tell the whole story. For that, you’d need to compare all three different measurements as well as components used and overall pickup efficiency. For example, the Starfire bridge pickup does have a lower resistance than the neck; however, it is wound with 41g wire. The neck pickup is wound with 42g wire. This difference in component alone will impact the resistance of the pickup. 41g is a thicker wire and as you increase your wire thickness, you decrease the amount of resistance.

It’s easy to fall into the trap of specs and speculations but in the end, you should always count on your ear because after all, it’s our ears which we are trying to please!
 

Los Angeles

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Now for my comments -

When I was younger and a bit more sensitive, I would have read that article and just taken offense. There's a condescending tone there that can't be denied.

But now I'm a 42 year old man that knows that PR management is part of the game. The community's critique of the bridge pickup can become an avalanche that buries the line. Suddenly, the things they got right, like build quality, the look, the playability and all at a great value get lost. So maybe I should cut Guild a break when they say "sounds great to us, you should try it and see for yourself." They need to sell these guitars.

We heard similar spin when the new S-100 was revealed: Comments like: "This S-100 is INSPIRED by the classic S-100 but It was not meant to be a re-issue - the earliest S-100 really DID have anti-hum pickups," etc. etc. And everyone who knows S-100s just said "Sorry, nope, you failed, try again." The S-100 was by far the most disappointing guitar in the NS line and the thin, crappy sound of the bridge pickup really stuck out on a stiff solidbody.

But the S-100 story proves that Cordoba-Guild is capable of making adjustments. I can't wait to try the 21-st century HB1 that are being put into the latest S-100s. They are trying to dial them in, and I very much appreciate that.

Another aspect to consider is that the timing of the pickup talk was probably not the best. If the pickup criticism had reached it's peak a year ago, instead of a couple of months ago, there would have been plenty of time to make adjustments before this year's NAMM.

But then, there's the bottom line to consider. This is an an industry where profit margins are extremely slim, throwing 10,000, 1,000 or even 100 pickups into the trash and making more can really hurt, especially in a year that requires tremendous capital to get the Corona facility up and running.

They might have WAY too many of these bridge pickups made already and it must be extremely cost prohibitive to re-wind them and/or throw them in the trash and rebuild.

BUT LET'S BE FAIR - this is not an entirely BAD sounding pickup, and we end up right where we started - maybe everyone should try it out and see if they can make it work. I don't have any 60's starfires anymore. But it would be a cool experiment to have the two side-by-side and make steady changes to the NS starfire until you get as close as possible. It would be cool to have a "how to dial it in" post on the forums with setup tips and mod recommendations.
 
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The problem is that I have a sixties model. :-(
We started talking about this roughly a year ago when I bought my NS SFIV. The problem was that I let Kim Keller know about a month before Fender sold Guild. He was trying to get the pups revised when the axe fell. So the pups kept getting made to the old specs. CMG had no idea and Fender didn't care anymore.
Hell, CMG didn't know until I personally contacted them, because I wanted Guild to be successful and anybody who plays one of these guitars is going to notice. It's not like it's just me being hypercritical here. Non- LTGers are noticing it on other forums and they aren't liking it. I can take the thread to a non-public area if people want.

Personally, I plan on buying replacement pups through Guild as soon as they become available. If they are still retailing for $50 a pop, it's not a burden to plug in a new one.
 

Los Angeles

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The problem is that I have a sixties model. :-(
We started talking about this roughly a year ago when I bought my NS SFIV. The problem was that I let Kim Keller know about a month before Fender sold Guild. He was trying to get the pups revised when the axe fell. So the pups kept getting made to the old specs. CMG had no idea and Fender didn't care anymore.
Hell, CMG didn't know until I personally contacted them, because I wanted Guild to be successful and anybody who plays one of these guitars is going to notice. It's not like it's just me being hypercritical here. Non- LTGers are noticing it on other forums and they aren't liking it. I can take the thread to a non-public area if people want.

Personally, I plan on buying replacement pups through Guild as soon as they become available. If they are still retailing for $50 a pop, it's not a burden to plug in a new one.

I didn't know that part of the story. It seems the ball got dropped during the ownership transfer.
 

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No. CMG is going to make it right. I can tell you that right now. It's just that they are stuck in a bad circumstance that they didn't have any control over. I think revised minibuckers will be out before my birthday in July. ;-) maybe sooner?

Fwiw, I was probably the first person to let them know that hb-1s needed to go into the S-100s. I feel that was already in the works, and I'm not going to claim credit for that.
 

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Nah, I just want Guild to be successful so I can buy one of those US built electrics they're talking about.

And buy a couple of replacement pups.
 

Walter Broes

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I have done this with the re-issue Franz pickups on my NS M-75. rewound to different specs & magnets swapped as well, most notably narrower magnets on the neck pickup. On the vintage Franz in my X-50, the magnets are noticeably narrower than on the re-issues. Note, I also think that it's not just the DC resistance or the number of turns which is important (though the latter would be a more meaningful metric but that's hardly ever provided) but also the way the coil is wound (e.g. hand scatterwound vs machine wound) makes a big difference.
Aha! I'm sorry if I missed a post where you perhaps elaborate on this, but are you happy with the result? Did they come out sounding close to the real deal?

And - "narrower" as in shorter?
 
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