NGD - '70 F412 Sunburst

awagner

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Here's my latest acquisition. It obviously needs some work, but it deserves to be restored.

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More to follow
 

walrus

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A worthy project! That has a great finish color!

walrus
 

charliea

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No doubt it'll be great! Hard to beat a 412. '70 is an early one. If you get a chance, it would be educational for us if you could post the guitar's weight. I'm really curious to compare a '70 with my NH which weighs 5lb 8oz. Later Westerlies were heavier, but I wonder about a '70?
 

Smitch

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Score! Bring that icon back to life for another 45 years!
 

dapmdave

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That's a real beauty! Here's hoping the restoration goes nicely.
 

awagner

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I purchased it from the first owner, who stated that everything is original to the guitar.

I think a neck reset is a given, but my biggest concern is the binding separation on the waist. Never seen that before, and I don't know how major an issue it is.

Also, a question. Is the bridge Brazilian rosewood, or Indian? When I had my '71 F612 restored by Guild, they told me that the bridge was BR, so I would like to know if the same is true with this one.
 

GuildFS4612CE

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Lovely old guitar needing a lovely amount of work...while binding shrinks at a different rate from the body woods, and often separates, it appears to be a different issue here...the binding is probably the least of your worries...while binding is a pain to work on, it can be fixed and/or replaced...the big issue is the underlying problem...while I am NOT a luthier, the pics you've posted seem to show that the neck/neck block of the guitar has shifted southward and it trying to meet the bridge...and in doing so has deformed the sides and possibly the top as well...the sides and top no longer match, hence the separation you're seeing...there are likely some major structural issues going on inside...recommend you have a professional look at it...you might want to contact our own 'fixit' in Florida...former Guild employee...currently an authorized Guild repairman for the new owners...he might be able to give you a preliminary idea of what is likely involved to restore the guitar to playing condition after viewing the pictures. Good luck to you on taking on the project.
 

awagner

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Lovely old guitar needing a lovely amount of work...while binding shrinks at a different rate from the body woods, and often separates, it appears to be a different issue here...the binding is probably the least of your worries...while binding is a pain to work on, it can be fixed and/or replaced...the big issue is the underlying problem...while I am NOT a luthier, the pics you've posted seem to show that the neck/neck block of the guitar has shifted southward and it trying to meet the bridge...and in doing so has deformed the sides and possibly the top as well...the sides and top no longer match, hence the separation you're seeing...there are likely some major structural issues going on inside...recommend you have a professional look at it...you might want to contact our own 'fixit' in Florida...former Guild employee...currently an authorized Guild repairman for the new owners...he might be able to give you a preliminary idea of what is likely involved to restore the guitar to playing condition after viewing the pictures. Good luck to you on taking on the project.

Thank you. The guy I use is a great luthier, who also recently became authorized to do warranty work for Guild and Cordoba. I will be bringing this guitar and my F312 to him (which also needs extensive work, including a neck reset), within the next few weeks, and will report his assessment of both.

Too bad bringing it to the factory is no longer an option. They did a great restoration job for me previously on a different guitar.

I did not pay much for this guitar, so I am prepared to pay what is necessary to restore it, assuming it is restorable.
 

Geotrio

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awagner - I'm glad you are having that beauty restored. Everything I've seen and read on this site indicates that the work performed by 'fixit' in FL is top notch+. Even though you already have someone you trust, it's worth considering. His work would be as good or better than anything the factory could provide.
 

charliea

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awagner - I'm glad you are having that beauty restored. Everything I've seen and read on this site indicates that the work performed by 'fixit' in FL is top notch+. Even though you already have someone you trust, it's worth considering. His work would be as good or better than anything the factory could provide.


I'll mention, along those lines, that I always ship Fedex Ground these days. Costs 30-40% less than UPS, with service at least as good. Makes a difference when you're shipping for repairs.
 

awagner

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No doubt it'll be great! Hard to beat a 412. '70 is an early one. If you get a chance, it would be educational for us if you could post the guitar's weight. I'm really curious to compare a '70 with my NH which weighs 5lb 8oz. Later Westerlies were heavier, but I wonder about a '70?

The guitar weighs 7.2 lbs.
 

awagner

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Lovely old guitar needing a lovely amount of work...while binding shrinks at a different rate from the body woods, and often separates, it appears to be a different issue here...the binding is probably the least of your worries...while binding is a pain to work on, it can be fixed and/or replaced...the big issue is the underlying problem...while I am NOT a luthier, the pics you've posted seem to show that the neck/neck block of the guitar has shifted southward and it trying to meet the bridge...and in doing so has deformed the sides and possibly the top as well...the sides and top no longer match, hence the separation you're seeing...there are likely some major structural issues going on inside...recommend you have a professional look at it...you might want to contact our own 'fixit' in Florida...former Guild employee...currently an authorized Guild repairman for the new owners...he might be able to give you a preliminary idea of what is likely involved to restore the guitar to playing condition after viewing the pictures. Good luck to you on taking on the project.

It turns out that the problem is not nearly as severe as originally thought.

Initially, however, things looked bleak.

I took the guitar to a highly regarded luthier whom I never used before, and he quoted me $6,000, based on the time he thought it would take to complete the project. I passed.

I then contacted Fixit, who, based on the pictures, agreed with your assessment that there was a major structural issue, possibly due to a severe impact to the guitar. The luthier I typically use also thought, based on the pictures, that there was a major structural problem, since it appeared that the body in the waist area warped and separated from the top. However, this is not what occurred. The plastic material between the top and sides simply shrunk and lifted up beyond the edge of the waist on both sides. The binding is completely intact. Once the protruding plastic is reinserted and stabilized, the area will be completely flush.

This issue has nothing to do with the the fact that the neck block has shifted due to age and string tension, which will require a neck reset to correct. An internal inspection showed no structural issues that would prevent a complete and successful restoration, at a reasonable price.

I have to thank Hans and Tom for their input, suggestions, and offers to assist me in this project. We all want to see this guitar restored, and it will be.

Once the project is completed I will post "after" pictures and provide more information.
 

70man

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Very nice,hope it all turns out great for you.Congratulations Mate!.We will all be looking forward to the pictures,No pressure hahahaha!.Your collection just keeps getting better and better.
Stu
 

charliea

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The guitar weighs 7.2 lbs.

That's an education for me! That's even heavier than my two mid-90's JF65-12s, which were right at 6 3/4 lbs each. I have no doubt that the '70 is a tone monster, which tells me there's a whole lot more involved than overall weight. On a related note, in a few days I'll post some pics of the neck reset Fixit just did on my F212. It's a beautiful job.
 

5thumbs

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If it weren’t for the fact that I am immune to GAS, an F412 (preferably sunburst) would definitely be on my short list. That one looks to be one worthy of some love, and it seems you are willing to provide that. Well done!
 

awagner

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So, after a neck reset, new nut and saddle, fretwork, and the sanding down of the protruding material below the waist binding, I finally got the guitar back. The guitar now plays great, and sounds amazing. Probably the loudest guitar in my stable, but with depth and clarity. The only Guild I ever sold was a Corona F412, which was well built and very playable, but too bright and tinny for my taste. This one is bright as well, but it has a more complex, substantial tone, quite different from my rosewood 12ers. I love the contrast of tonal qualities between the maple and rosewood.

Since I used a new person to undertake this project, I am going to have his work checked out by my regular guy to confirm that the guitar is structurally sound, and to also address some cosmetic issues (replace end wedge, which is deteriorating, and to address minor finish loss areas). But so far I am thrilled with the outcome.

Once the remaining work is completed I will post "after" pics.
 

awagner

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So it turns out that other than making the guitar playable, the guy I used did not restore the guitar correctly. I therefore had the guitar re-restored by my preferred guy. I just got the guitar back this week and he did a phenomenal job. I will post both the before and after pix in a new thread, since the pix in this thread are gone (thanks, Photobucket).
 
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