The Strings my D25 would have left Westerly strung with at the end of 1971

Might be the best thread I have ever penned on the LTG...I just love how that sentence reads...

Anyway, I emailed Hans but I know he is busy daily trying to keep all that Guild knowledge in his brain.
I figure Al or Ralf or GoG would have an inkling.

My 1971 D25 left the Westerly facility near the end of 1971, maybe even in early 1972, though it was finally assembled around Dec '71. At least I like to think so.

What strings would it have been strung with, and preferably, gauge? Phosphor Bronze was not in the market till 1974, so I am guessing 80/20 would have been the alloy.

Thanks friends.

Westerly Wood said:

I figure Al or Ralf or GoG would have an inkling.

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Gotta bow out on this one, just so you know I saw it.
Only remember somebody mentioning a while back that their mid-'70's '25 came with mediums, and mentally filing that because source seemed credible, and it was one of the very few specs I've seen for the period re strings.

adorshki said:

Gotta bow out on this one, just so you know I saw it.
Only remember somebody mentioning a while back that their mid-'70's '25 came with mediums, and mentally filing that because source seemed credible, and it was one of the very few specs I've seen for the period re strings.

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So Al, thanks for weighing in. Possible that my D25 left with Medium gauge 80/20 strings, but could have been D'Addarios, as Guild had their own brand but maybe D'A provided the strings for them.

Westerly Wood said:

So Al, thanks for weighing in. Possible that my D25 left with Medium gauge 80/20 strings, but could have been D'Addarios, as Guild had their own brand but maybe D'A provided the strings for them.

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Yes Guild never actually made strings.
One of our members who worked in music retail in the '80's says a Guild rep confirmed that D'Addario was the OE at the time, but I've just never seen any input about who it may have been during '60's and '70's.
D'Addario (as DARCO) certainly would be at the top of my list of most likely sources: They were close, and they had the history of making strings for other folks under private labels.
Wiki does name them as Guild's OEM supplier during that period, that's a new bit since that last time I looked 'em up there:
"In 1956 a new company (the Archaic Musical String Mfg Co.) began to make steel strings, run by Charles' son, John D'Addario Sr. The company made strings for several of the major guitar makers of the time, including Gretsch, D'Angelico, Martin, and Guild. In 1962 the two companies were merged under the name Darco."
They didn't actually become D'Addario until '74.
Same date you mention for introduction of PB. Hmmmmmmm...........
ONly other source I've ever seen cited was DR founded by Al Dronge's son Mark but that was 1989, and I'm still mildly skeptical about that. Never saw any corroboration for the initial claim, but I guess it's possible in spite of the long-running relationship with D'Addario. Could have been affected by Guild's own problems at the time, maybe.

adorshki said:

Yes Guild never actually made strings.
One of our members who worked in music retail in the '80's says a Guild rep confirmed that D'Addario was the OE at the time, but I've just never seen any input about who it may have been during '60's and '70's.
D'Addario (as DARCO) certainly would be at the top of my list of most likely sources: They were close, and they had the history of making strings for other folks under private labels.
Wiki does name them as Guild's OEM supplier during that period, that's a new bit since that last time I looked 'em up there:
"In 1956 a new company (the Archaic Musical String Mfg Co.) began to make steel strings, run by Charles' son, John D'Addario Sr. The company made strings for several of the major guitar makers of the time, including Gretsch, D'Angelico, Martin, and Guild. In 1962 the two companies were merged under the name Darco."
They didn't actually become D'Addario until '74.
Same date you mention for introduction of PB. Hmmmmmmm...........
ONly other source I've ever seen cited was DR founded by Al Dronge's son Mark but that was 1989, and I'm still mildly skeptical about that. Never saw any corroboration for the initial claim, but I guess it's possible in spite of the long-running relationship with D'Addario. Could have been affected by Guild's own problems at the time, maybe.

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So Darco (now D'Adarrio) might have in fact made the strings my Br left the facility with. Sounds probable. Since PB would not have been available as a string alloy, I have to go with 80/20, though I found an old 1972 April price list for Guild, which would be close enough to when my Guild would have left Westerly...give or take a month or 2. Strings are listed in that price list, some kind of "new bronze alloy with high copper content"... Would that have been PB? There was a light and medium gauge, and I have no clue the gauge my Br would have first been strung with. See the price list April 1972 pg 7 below...



I have decided to get all purist/traditional with my Guild, and try to string it with the same alloy/gauge strings it would have left the factory with. I believe this might indeed be a snipe hunt, but a fun one, and easier than trying to find the actual strings my Br left Westerly with. (now that is funny)

Hey Wood, I was looking online and found this info. They made 80/20 which is 80% copper, They also made 85/15 which is 85% copper, and the Phosphor Bronze strings are 92% copper and 8% tin. Here is a link to the rest of the info. It is not of what was made in 71-72 but what different high copper content strings types they have. The Materials section is halfway down this page.

http://www.stringbusters.com/stringfaqs.asp

Hope this helps in your search, I would be interested in hearing the tone of the original strings if you can find a set.:single_eye:

txbumper57 said:

Hey Wood, I was looking online and found this info. They made 80/20 which is 80% copper, They also made 85/15 which is 85% copper, and the Phosphor Bronze strings are 92% copper and 8% tin. Here is a link to the rest of the info. It is not of what was made in 71-72 but what different high copper content strings types they have. The Materials section is halfway down this page.

http://www.stringbusters.com/stringfaqs.asp

Hope this helps in your search, I would be interested in hearing the tone of the original strings if you can find a set.:single_eye:

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I am wondering now if the higher bronze content is this new phosphor bronze, and D'A was using it a couple years before they actually went to market with it in 1974. IN which case, my search is kind of a disappointment as I can just go out and buy D'A EJ16s any old time . But the gauge, what would the gauge have been?

Thanks Bump!

I think Hans or Ralf would be the best bet on the string gauge. I figure in all the Old original literature they have there has got to be some mention of what gauge they shipped from the factory with. I'm not next to my copy of Hans's Book but did you look in there?

txbumper57 said:

I think Hans or Ralf would be the best bet on the string gauge. I figure in all the Old original literature they have there has got to be some mention of what gauge they shipped from the factory with. I'm not next to my copy of Hans's Book but did you look in there?

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I will look when I get home tonite. Thanks Bump for reminding me about the "book". I do not believe my 2 year old has ripped up that page yet

D'Addario really pioneered Phosphor Bronze acoustic guitar strings in 1974 only according to their webpage, so in 1972 that could have not been possible. (Actually D'Addario was known as Darco owned by Martin Guitars in 1972!)

In 1975 the D-25 was specified with the Guild M-450 strings which were PB from the beginning I think, so likely D'Addario made. The old price lists don't show any string types however.

On UMGF one member wrote however: "My Guild D25BR came equipped with Guild M450 phos. br. strings and I purchased it in 1973." Interesting, since D'Addario claims 1974 was the first mass production date for PB strings...Talk about errors in peoples mind and on the internet...

Anyway, maybe that "high copper content" in 1972 was a 85/15 copper/tin alloy to make them a bit warmer sounding?

And according to Wikipedia: "In 1956 a new company (the Archaic Musical String Mfg Co.) began to make steel strings, run by Charles' son, John D'Addario Sr. The company made strings for several of the major guitar makers of the time, including Gretsch, D'Angelico, Martin, and Guild. In 1962 the two companies were merged under the name Darco."

Ralf

Anyone know when 80/20s were first offered? My recollection is that they were born after PB had been on the market for a while.

SFIV1967 said:

D'Addario really pioneered Phosphor Bronze acoustic guitar strings in 1974 only according to their webpage, so in 1972 that could have not been possible. (Actually D'Addario was known as Darco owned by Martin Guitars in 1972!)

In 1975 the D-25 was specified with the Guild M-450 strings which were PB from the beginning I think, so likely D'Addario made. The old price lists don't show any string types however.

On UMGF one member wrote however: "My Guild D25BR came equipped with Guild M450 phos. br. strings and I purchased it in 1973." Interesting, since D'Addario claims 1974 was the first mass production date for PB strings...Talk about errors in peoples mind and on the internet...

Anyway, maybe that "high copper content" in 1972 was a 85/15 copper/tin alloy to make them a bit warmer sounding?

And according to Wikipedia: "In 1956 a new company (the Archaic Musical String Mfg Co.) began to make steel strings, run by Charles' son, John D'Addario Sr. The company made strings for several of the major guitar makers of the time, including Gretsch, D'Angelico, Martin, and Guild. In 1962 the two companies were merged under the name Darco."

Ralf

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Thanks Ralf! So possible the BR was shipped with the equivalent of d'addario EJ 17s. Or something real close to that alloy. I am kind of hoping it left westerly with light gauge strings but I got a feeling they were mediums.

wileypickett said:

Anyone know when 80/20s were first offered? My recollection is that they were born after PB had been on the market for a while.

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No...
"80/20 Bronze – Composed of 80% copper and 20% zinc, commonly referred to as brass, the original acoustic string alloy selected by John D'Addario Sr. and John D'Angelico in the 1930s."
Soure: http://www.daddario.com/DADProducts...1904&sid=037b7159-34a4-4604-b279-4e5db459e294
Ralf

I must confess, with all honesty, that I have never been quite so specifically curious.
And everyone knows me as Curious Joe, and I cover a wide range of curiosity.

So, how did you arrive at this particular thought? What caused you to wonder about this?
Just curious. :mellow:

Joe

Westerly Wood said:

Thanks Ralf! So possible the BR was shipped with the equivalent of d'addario EJ 17s. Or something real close to that alloy. I am kind of hoping it left westerly with light gauge strings but I got a feeling they were mediums.

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I'd be willing to bet it shipped with either the L310 or the M410's shown in the list, simply for economy over the total number of guitars built. I suspect those'll be 80/20 like Ralf gave history on.
B-u-u-ut: if M450's were always PB as Ralf thinks, then why wouldn't the L350's also be? There is precedent for Guild changing things without changing a model number though, so in '72 could be that 85/15 he mentions. It would be interesting to see when exactly the L350's were introduced, because before I saw that I wondered exactly as you did if maybe D'A (as Darco) was actually providing PB for Guild before their official history claims it was introduced.
Maybe it's what caused 'em to leave Darco to Martin and start their own brand?
Thing about the gauge is that I'm pretty darn sure I recall reading that early '25's were shipped with lights, then there was that period when they had mediums, extending from mid-70's to ???(mid to late '80's I think), then back to lights. I'm guessing it probably coincided with Gruhn bringing in Kim Walker in mid '80's because design was lightened up again.
But your guitar's right in that transitional period when they were about to change to spruce, and maybe that had some bearing on string specs as well.
So, I think the only final answer will be found in specific lit for '72.
I'd put my marker on light gauge 80/20's from what I've seen here so far.

killdeer43 said:

I must confess, with all honesty, that I have never been quite so specifically curious.
And everyone knows me as Curious Joe, and I cover a wide range of curiosity.

So, how did you arrive at this particular thought? What caused you to wonder about this?
Just curious. :mellow:

Joe

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I just have no funds for GAS and am currently in tumult over a pending cross country move, after having just moved 6 months ago. And even though I invested in a neck reset for the Br, I just don't love it. My ears prefer a spruce top. So all that being said, I have found a nice distraction in tracing down the string Guild would have strung the Br with. For what it's worth, it is a fun diversion.

Westerly Wood said:

For what it's worth, it is a fun diversion.

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Betcha 80/20 lights on a 'hog top sound better than they do on spruce.
:biggrin-new:

adorshki said:

Betcha 80/20 lights on a 'hog top sound better than they do on spruce.
:biggrin-new:

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Totally. Need that brightness to wake up the all hog sound.

Westerly Wood said:

For what it's worth, it is a fun diversion.

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Ah yes, the old diversion tactic. Sometimes it works. Good luck with that.

Or you could just play your guitar....:mellow:

Joe

killdeer43 said:

So, how did you arrive at this particular thought? What caused you to wonder about this? Just curious. Joe

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“It is, of course, a trifle, but there is nothing so important as trifles. . . ." --Sherlock Holmes