12 String F-412 - Tacoma vs New Hartford

Jimmer

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Hi Folks

My first post here on the forum though I’ve been on the AGF for a while.

I’m thinking about buying a 12 String Guild F-412. I played a few of them years ago though I don’t know where they were made.

I have a couple of Ovations and I live in Connecticut so I’ve been to the factory in New Hartford (before and after the recent reopening). I got a little tour and saw the fantastic quality Guilds that they were making at the time.

I’ve been trying to find a New Hartford F-412 12 String but they’re not many for sale and they seem to fetch a lot more than some of the Tacoma F-412 Guilds that I’ve seen. Seems that I could get a Tacoma for about Fifteen or so but a New Hartford would cost about twenty-five or more.

What do you folks think about the F-412 Guilds that came out of Tacoma vs. the ones that came out of New Hartford?
 

6L6

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Tacoma-built Guilds are my favorite. The only reason i don't still have my Tacoma built F-412 is I stumbled upon a 1971 F-312NT that sounded even better.
 

gjmalcyon

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Not 12-strings, but my two Tacoma-built Guilds (F-47R and DV-6) are great-sounding and impeccably-built instruments. That said, I think there's more variability between individual instruments than factories. Play 'em all and if you find one that captures your heart, go for it.
 

BoneDigger

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If you can get a Tacoma F412 for 1500, jump on it! I just ordered one from EBay for 1700 and I feel like that was a good deal.
 

geoguy

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I can give two thumbs up for a Tacoma F-412, having owned one for awhile.

I'm sure that a New Hartford example would also be a fine guitar, but I'm better-acquainted with NH six-string instruments.
 

chazmo

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First, welcome to LTG, Jimmer!

The New Hartford-built F-50 (6-string brother of the F-412) was one of my favorite instruments from there... an absolutely wonderful instrument. However, it was an F-512 from Tacoma that "converted" me to Guild in the first place ten years ago.

I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that an F-412 from either place will be terrific.

There are some differences. The real, ebony faceplate on NH models is a serious draw in my mind. And, unless you get a 2008ish Tacoma model, you'll probably get a double truss-rod neck, rather than the single rod flanked by two fixed carbon rods.

Bottom line... you can't go wrong.
 

Jimmer

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Thanks for all the replies folks.

What about DTAR? I'm not sure that I will need to plug in my 12 string but it's always nice to have the option. Is the DTAR system what I want and how much do you think it adds to the value?
 

Jimmer

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Well I think I answered my own question about DTAR. I did a search here on the forum and it's been talked about a lot. Seems that some people like it and some don't. But if you don't have a built in pickup it's not that hard or expensive to install one. Based on what I've read it shouldn't be a deal breaker on a used instrument if it has it or doesn't.

I'm still thinking about spending more and buying the New Hartford F-412 because it's in almost new condition. But it does sound like the Tacoma F-412 guitars are well regarded.
 

gilded

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I think it all depends on what your use for a pickup is. How loud do you need to be? The louder you play, the better an under-saddle pickup can be.

If you plan on playing in a living room with friends who also have acoustic electric guitars, or in a really small coffee shop, there are a lot of pickups that are more 'sensitive' than under-saddle pickups. But the 'more sensitive' pickups won't work in a band situation.

Here's an example: James Taylor has two pickups in his stage guitars, an under-saddle and an interior mic (at least, he used to). In concert, when James plays the opening figure of a song, or the middle eight bars, the band is silent, so he's using the in-guitar mic. When the band kicks in, James' sound engineer will switch to the undersaddle pickup.

Back to Guilds and DTARs. I played a Tacoma D55 with a DTAR lock'n'load for a year or so (google DTAR lock'n'load so you'll know what I'm talking about). It was an under-saddle pickup and sounded really good compared to other underside pickups. It didn't quack like a lot of piezo under-saddle pups do when it was hit hard, it was very clear and natural sounding, etc. I used it for 20 gigs in a crowded bar as a member of a 2 voice, djembe and guitar duo. It ruled. I also played with with my old guy rock band with a sound hole cover and had no feedback at band volumes.

What I didn't like about lock'n'load was the weight. The lock'n'load feature added a pound or so to an already heavy guitar. Also, if you are buying a used Guild equipped the the DTAR lock'n'load system you should expect to pay less for it than the same guitar without the DTAR and you will also receive less money when you sell it.

That's my opinion, anyway.
 

Cougar

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I’ve been trying to find a New Hartford F-412 12 String but they’re not many for sale and they seem to fetch a lot more than some of the Tacoma F-412 Guilds that I’ve seen.

I feel your pain. :subdued: Like you say, the New Hartfords don't come up for sale very often, and almost never at a "reasonable" price, considering what they originally sold for new. Takes a lot of patience, which occasionally escapes me, as I've picked up Corona and Tacoma 12-strings. I think Guild quality has generally remained consistent throughout the years. These are all quite incredible instruments. :untroubled:

But yeah, a sudden jump in the availability of New Hartford 12s, with DTAR dual source, along with a big drop in price, would be wonderful. :tiger:
 

txbumper57

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I have the DTAR Wavelength Multisource (UST and Condenser Mic 18 volt preamp) in My New Hartford F50R and my New Hartford F512, Both came from the factory with it. I absolutely Love it. To my ears it is as close to the purist Acoustic projection from a pickup I have ever heard. The 18 volt system gives you a ton more headroom so where most other 9 volt systems top out and start quacking when you play hard the Dtar does not. It also picks up the slightest nuances of playing softly as well as staying true when really driving the guitar. If I had my Choice I would install it in every acoustic I plan on playing live. The difference in value on the used market of with and without the New Hartford version of the DTAR can be between $100-$300 in price from what I have seen.

Tacoma and New Hartford both made excellent guitars and both sound amazing in their own right. I tend to lean towards the New Hartford models if I had to choose but it really is like comparing grades of 98 to 96. They are both A+'s in Build quality and tone and ultimately it comes down to preference. Like mentioned earlier in this thread I don't think there were ever bad years for Guilds. I do however believe that the Tacoma and New Hartford made Guilds were the pinnacle of production for the brand. I don't think you could go wrong with either choice you have in front of you. Best of luck in your journey and Welcome to LTG!

TX
 
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I have the DTAR Wavelength Multisource (UST and Condenser Mic 18 volt preamp) in My New Hartford F50R and my New Hartford F512, Both came from the factory with it. I absolutely Love it. To my ears it is as close to the purist Acoustic projection from a pickup I have ever heard. The 18 volt system gives you a ton more headroom so where most other 9 volt systems top out and start quacking when you play hard the Dtar does not. It also picks up the slightest nuances of playing softly as well as staying true when really driving the guitar. If I had my Choice I would install it in every acoustic I plan on playing live. The difference in value on the used market of with and without the New Hartford version of the DTAR can be between $100-$300 in price from what I have seen.

Tacoma and New Hartford both made excellent guitars and both sound amazing in their own right. I tend to lean towards the New Hartford models if I had to choose but it really is like comparing grades of 98 to 96. They are both A+'s in Build quality and tone and ultimately it comes down to preference. Like mentioned earlier in this thread I don't think there were ever bad years for Guilds. I do however believe that the Tacoma and New Hartford made Guilds were the pinnacle of production for the brand. I don't think you could go wrong with either choice you have in front of you. Best of luck in your journey and Welcome to LTG!

TX

What HE said...A BIG +1

I have a 2012 F-50 New Hartford, with factory-installed DTAR Wavelength Multi-source, and I couldn't be happier!

Keep in mind, it is NOT the "Lock & Load" system. It has a fairly standard end-pin jack with the small control box attached to it inside, and a small pouch for the 2 AA batteries (that give it the 18 v) velcro'd to the neck block inside. Doesn't add as much weight as the old system, and what little weight it does add is divided between the opposite ends of the guitar box. Perfect balance! Plus the NH guitars are lighter overall than previous makes anyway. And the tuners are AMAZING....open back, gold, vintage looking yet very precise Gotoh's. Beautiful and smaller than the Grovers...and probably lighter too.

Inside the sound-hole, there are two little wheels...one controls the overall volume of the guitar, the other dials in the on-board mic. Gives you LOTS of flexibility to match your playing style. And NO QUACK! I have had many different guitar/pickup/amp/pre-amp combinations in my decades of playing and I LOVE the DTAR system. You have to fiddle with it a little and experiment with the different levels, but you get used to it fairly quickly. Works great for playing with a loud band (where you'll use mostly UST), or softly and subtly with a more acoustic setting (where you will dial in a little more mic). I WAY prefer it over my Fishman Matrix Infinity that I have in another guitar, or to the eSonic2 in my Epi. Or to the other systems I have tried over the years.

I play with a pretty loud band, sit in with other bands of varying volumes and styles, and do some acoustic-duo/trio type stuff, and the DTAR system is the only one that suits all of them perfectly.

The DTAR definitely adds value to an already AMAZING and under-rated guitar! I plan on installing it in my JF 30 too!

And NH comes with BONE saddle, nut and pins. (maybe the Tacoma did too? I don't remember).

Either way, you'll get a great guitar!

Welcome!
 

BoneDigger

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My Tacoma F412 from EBay is supposed to arrive Monday. I'm excited to say the least!

Todd
 

Cougar

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My Tacoma F412 from EBay is supposed to arrive Monday. I'm excited to say the least!

I'll bet! I just got my Tacoma F412 a couple weeks ago. Gorgeous thing. Still in the shop getting a little work done. I stopped in a few days ago to see how it was going. "It's in the queue." :moody: My tech's good, but slow.

f412-3.jpg
 

Jimmer

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Well I was still thinking that I'd go for the New Hartford F412 so I made an inquiry. Turns out that nobody had inquired about it UNTIL the day before I called and it sold:( I guess I'm partial to the New Hartford Guilds since I'd been to the factory a few times and got to see them made plus I live in Connecticut.

But I might have an opportunity to travel down to where there's a Tacoma F412 for $1500 so hopefully it will still be there in an week and I can try it out.
 

Cougar

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I guess I'm partial to the New Hartford Guilds since I'd been to the factory a few times and got to see them made plus I live in Connecticut.

Very understandable. They're newer! The reviews are fairly off the charts. I want one too! Meanwhile, they're all good.
 

Rayk

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Man ya all need to quit ! Your all driving me nuts looking at them 412's and 512's 512 being what I want thank you all very much ! Now I'm all weak in the knees :>(
 

adorshki

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Man ya all need to quit ! Your all driving me nuts looking at them 412's and 512's 512 being what I want thank you all very much ! Now I'm all weak in the knees :>(
Whenever I need to release some stress I go lookin' fer a lawn to mow.
Just sayin'.
:devilish:
 
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