12 String F-412 - Tacoma vs New Hartford

Rayk

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Thought I told you wife made me take it back and I'm still fixing the junker ! told her too and now shes getting it but a tad to late LOL
 

Rayk

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ok one thing that bugs me why can they not get the finger board bling to be centered on 12 strings it drives me nuts as is on mine !
 

txbumper57

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ok one thing that bugs me why can they not get the finger board bling to be centered on 12 strings it drives me nuts as is on mine !

If you are referring to the photo posted in this thread of the head stock I think your eyes are playing tricks on you. That photo is taken from slightly off center and the differences in string size on either side of the inlay makes it appear to be off center but it looks right to me. I can't speak for your F212 but I can say the inlays on my New Hartford F512 and F50R are both centered on the fretboards.

TX
 

JohnW63

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I get a bit weak when I see the Guild 12 strings here, too. I don't need one at all. My Ovation fills the bill just fine. I would love to try one out, someday, but I don't have the itch to snag one.
 

gilded

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chaz', in terms of 'once you've had a Guild 12', I think Guild 12s project a lot better than the Martin 12s I've played. That doesn't mean the Martins weren't cool, but the Guilds project better.

I've played a lot of 412s over the years and they've all been good. The one 512 I played was a looong time ago, early '90's. It was pretty beat up and didn't sound that good. I've never been able to definitively say whether I'm just not a Rosewood 12 guy or it was not a good guitar.

I don't usually like Maple, either. That leaves Mahogany, doesn't it? :)
 

chazmo

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:) Harry, it's all good. :) Get your hands on an old F-212XL and let me know what you think. That might be your ticket.

Martin is making a serious play recently with some low-cost versions of their Grand J body style. In fact, they've got one that's rather like an F-212XL with DTAR Multi-source electronics. :) Wow. In any case, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. The Grand J is a recent body style for them; not sure if it's cut into Guild sales or not.

I've played a bunch of other Martin 12s, and I really like my old D-12-20, but it wouldn't make the cut against most of my Guilds if I had to choose. :)
 

gilded

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For hollow-body Guild 6 string acoustics, I've had a Tacoma D55, an '80s F50 blonde, an F30 with an arched back and a '69 D35.

For acoustic-electrics, I've had a mini-bucker CE100 single, a Guild Geo. Barnes, a mini bucker DE500, an M65 and a mini bucker DE400.

For classicals, I've had an '85 Mark 5 and a '72 Mark II. Nice guitars, but the action was too high on both of them for my old guy hands.

For 12s, I've had a G312 (like GuildMark) and then, all at the same time, an F212 cutaway, an F212xl, and an F112. I liked the 212xl, but it was a bit slow coming out of the box. Sounded like a baritone voice. The 212 cutaway was okay but not great. Never cottoned to the G312. The F112 was a dandy, with a quick-spirited tenor voice.

For solid body electrics, I've had a Nature Boy finish S100 with the big buckers, 2 circa 2000-2002 Bluesbirds.

For basses, I've had 2 JS II fretless basses, a '66 SF I bass with the pickup near the bridge and a later in the '60s SF II bass with Bisonics and the master volume/suck switch harness (hated it). I had a '70's M85 II solid body, too. Heavy.

Instruments that I've not owned but have played enough to have an opinion about are: X500s, an X700, X175s, an A350 with a DeArmond 1100, a 60s Braz D50 and a few F20 and M20s.

Sorry for the long list, it just came out. I originally was just gonna list the 12s. Sheesh!
 

Jimmer

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Question about the F412. I'm told on the AGF that the F412 uses a laminated back. Is this true and do the New Hartford models use it?
 

gjmalcyon

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F-412 is laminated maple, solid maple sides, solid spruce top. F-512 is solid rosewood. F-212/F212XL is solid mahogany. A small run (about 275) variant was the JF4-12 which was laminated mahogany. Don't let the laminated, arched back on a F-412 deter you - they're great guitars.
 
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Jimmer

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Someone told me that they laminate and arch the back so that they don't need to brace the back, or something like that. It sounds like a structural reason as apposed to cost savings.
 

adorshki

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Someone told me that they laminate and arch the back so that they don't need to brace the back, or something like that. It sounds like a structural reason as apposed to cost savings.
The actual structural reason is that the arched back greatly enhances sustain and volume.
It produces a different sonic effect than a traditional flat-back.
Laminated wood in guitars has a bad rep because when it's in a top, 9 times out of ten it's a "tonekiller" , so folks unfamiliar with Guild often mistakenly believe their laminated backs area sign of cost-cutting, but nothing could be further from the truth.
The back doesn't need to resonate like a top does, it only needs to reflect, so sonically, what it's actually made of isn't nearly as important as its shape.
In fact the steam press used to make those backs on so many different models (and many of the arch-tops too) is the one piece of equipment that has been with Guild from Hoboken all the way through to Oxnard.
Over 50 years.
NOBODY knows archbacks like Guild.
The laminated arch does resist cracking better than a flat back, too.
 
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Bill Ashton

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I have been mostly absent but should chime in here...

First off, Chazmo has THE Guild 12-string, don't know what it is, maybe a 312 or something...think he gave it a German name, and it was for sale at one time. Ladies and Gentlemen it is THE 12-string guitar, close those other cases. She (regardless of the name) ain't brand new, but damn she's the best I have ever ever heard. AND she sounds like that when you are playing it! Would have been all over it myself but the neck profile just does not suit me, quite large.

Secondly, he has the OTHER best sounding 12-string in his Tacoma-build F512. It is what drove me to buy my NH F512. Sadly (at least for me), the NH builds have just a slightly different nut/string spacing, perhaps a function of the relatively slim neck profile, so I just don't find her to be a finger-picker's guitar...though flatpicking is fine, in fact I will use her sometimes as a practice mule for fiddle tunes...

...but ya can't bring a twelve string to a bluegrass jam! :frustrating::frustrating::cower:...not even a Martin! (Oh, I said that word, I'm sorry...)
 

Bill Ashton

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I find that I failed to mention the Third Best 12-String I have ever heard...and she was the prettiest...our Two Corgis at one time had an unbelievably-beautiful sunburst maple Guild Jumbo 12 of some nomenclature I don't remember. I only could hear her from afar, never could get my hands on it at the Lets Meet Guild he brought it to. I believe he did offer it to me once, but it just wasn't the time and I log that as one that got away. I believe a member here relieved him of that pretty thing eventually...
 
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adorshki

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I find that I failed to mention the Third Best 12-String I have ever heard...and she was the prettiest...our Two Corgis at one time had an unbelievably-beautiful sunburst maple Guild Jumbo 12 of some nomenclature I don't remember. I only could hear it from afar, never could get my hands on it at the Lets Meet Guild he brought it to. I believe he did offer it to me once, but it just wasn't the time and I log that as one that got away. I believe a member here relieved him of that pretty thing eventually...

Was that not his Corona JF30-12?

And Chaz's G312 (based on the D50) body) is still listed in his sig, although recently, I think he told Westerly Wood that he preferred the 512 himself.
 

wileypickett

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I did a show with Kaki King in NYC recently. Hanging out backstage prior to show time I got to play her F312. Really nice sounding guitar.

I have several Guild 12s myself, a D4-12, a JF30 12, an F212XL, an F412 and an F512, all Westerly made. The D4-12 is probably easiest to play, but sound-wise the F512 is top of the heap. (IMO.)

Glenn
 

txbumper57

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...but ya can't bring a twelve string to a bluegrass jam! :frustrating::frustrating::cower:...not even a Martin! (Oh, I said that word, I'm sorry...)

You could if it was the Guild Custom Shop 12 fret 12 string Orpheum Model. That little guitar will blow the windows out of the joint if you let it!

TX
 

gjmalcyon

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The actual structural reason is that the arched back greatly enhances sustain and volume.
It produces a different sonic effect than a traditional flat-back
...
NOBODY knows archbacks like Guild.

All I know is whenever I get out the JF4-12 (a jumbo 12-string with laminated arched mahogany back, solid mahogany sides), and strum a major chord, all the other players in the room (and some of the non-players, too) turn and look to see where that wondrous sound came from. All credit to the guitar, cause it ain't the player.
 

kostask

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The actual structural reason is that the arched back greatly enhances sustain and volume.
It produces a different sonic effect than a traditional flat-back.
Laminated wood in guitars has a bad rep because when it's in a top, 9 times out of ten it's a "tonekiller" , so folks unfamiliar with Guild often mistakenly believe their laminated backs area sign of cost-cutting, but nothing could be further from the truth.
The back doesn't need to resonate like a top does, it only needs to reflect, so sonically, what it's actually made of isn't nearly as important as its shape.
In fact the steam press used to make those backs on so many different models (and many of the arch-tops too) is the one piece of equipment that has been with Guild from Hoboken all the way through to Oxnard.
Over 50 years.
NOBODY knows archbacks like Guild.
The laminated arch does resist cracking better than a flat back, too.

Laminates got a bad reputation due to a lot of guitars from the Far East being made with poor quality laminates. By poor quality, I mean that the outer layers were a veneer of whatever hardwood, but the interior layers were made of some sort of soft filler material, which basically ended up not reflecting the sound, but absorbing it. There are some very, very good guitars with very good volume and projection made with laminated backs and sides (the original Selmer Maccaferri gypsy jazz guitars are the most famous, the red label Yamahas, the current Seagull, Simon and Patrick, and Art and Lutherie guitars, as well as the many variations that Guild has made over the years). if the laminate is made properly, with the goal being good dound, laminates can work very well. The arched back is a Guitl innovation, and works really well with a laminated back as the arched back can only be made in two ways, laminated (as Guild does), or carved out of a solid block of wood (which would quickly go out of production due to the cost associated with that type of process; think hand carved archtop type costs). A guitar of that type would also weigh a ton.
 
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