'71 S-90 Pickups and Bridge

Hey everyone,

I am a recent victim of a guild fetish and after buying one of the S-100 2013 reissues back in February, I recently sold it an got what I believe (according to the serial number) a '71 S-90, serial number: 54496. I'm trying to figure out whether or not these are HB-1s without the covers? The pickups are white and each humbucker has one coil of circular magnets, and one of square. The pickups sound really open, sweet, and woody...though the natural finish may help with that! I've never heard real HB-1s so I cannot compare. The only big negatives about the guitar are that the frets are practically flat (previous owner must have filed it down) and that it comes with this incredibly awkward block of a bridge that cannot be lowered without digging into the wood. I already put 160 bux into it to get the electronics cleaned out, re-glue the fretboard (glue had evaporated!) and do an UBER setup. The luthier highly recommended getting it refretted and replacing the bridge. Do you think this will seriously decrease the value? I got it for what I believe is a good deal, 530 dollars. I contacted Guild via email and they were of no assistance with helping figure out the mysterious nature of this instrument. I am so happy this forum exists and I would seriously appreciate any knowledge you have! Please see pictures below:









https://ibin.co/2lGKVJekOyiK.jpg

Hello and welcome, Encephelon! In the absence of any other responses I'm going to offer an opinion based on a visual comparison to my uncovered '71 JS-II bass. Here's a shot:



To my eye, the similarities are enough to declare your pickups original!

Hi Encephalon, and welcome! I have a '71 S-90, too. Those definitely look like HB-1s; occasionally you can find the covers on the 'Bay.
The bridge is also missing it's cover, which isn't too big a deal. The height adjustment screw looks bottomed out, but t when you get it refretted, you should find that you'll get the right string height from the higher frets. BTW, with that bridge, you need to use string sets with a wound G for proper intonation. I use D'Addarios.
Refretting doesn't affect originality,mist a maintanence item. Changing the bridge would a little, but you're missing it's cover already. I'd leave it for now until you get a refret. There's nothing really wrong with it, it's just not as fancy or adjustable. With the right strings I'm happy with mine.

Welcome!

If you bought it to play, you got a good deal even if you put a little more money into it.

Yes, those are HB-1 pick ups sans covers. At some point you might try lifting the pick guard to have a look at the underside. The pick ups may have a date etched into them. Guild did that during the '70's but I don't know exactly when they started and stopped the practice. They may say "Guild" as well (and may not even though they are Guild), but regardless, those are original.

Looks like the input jack has been replaced/modified and the tuners were changed. It probably would have had 3-on-a-side open face tuners originally.

If you change out the bridge it probably won't effect the value too much, but I would try to keep it original if possible.

You're better off coming here with questions than calling Guild.
Good luck and let us know how it goes!

Wow! That was a quick response. All of you guys rule and I am so happy to be apart of your fellow Guild dork clan! I took the S-90 to the luthier this afternoon to get refretted, and I am going to replace the bridge as it is simply too uncomfortable and I need to gig with this thing. Can anyone recommend what would be the best way to get close to how the other S-90s were with the bridge and tailpiece, or if anyone knows where to find the original? Pretty awesome to know these are the real deal HB-1s, thank you all!

That bridge although clunky looking may add some positives to the tome being one hunk of metal with no moving parts. Hagmeat had an S90 with that type opf bridge & it sounded great. That's offset by the lack of adjustments available of course. As AcornHouse said the bridge is set up for a wound G for decent intonation. If you can't live with that then a bridge replacement make senses. With regard to loss of values etc. - does it matter much if you are happy with the result of any changes and are going to play the heck out of it?

As others have said, they are HB-1s.

So an update, I ordered the same bridge/tailpiece set up that is on the current S-100 reissues. Do any of you know how far back the tailpiece typically goes behind the bridge on the early 70s models? I'll be taking the bridge/tailpiece to the luthier for setup this week. Thanks!

Encephalon Ricochet said:

So an update, I ordered the same bridge/tailpiece set up that is on the current S-100 reissues. Do any of you know how far back the tailpiece typically goes behind the bridge on the early 70s models? I'll be taking the bridge/tailpiece to the luthier for setup this week. Thanks!

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Good move. I replaced the block bridge/tailpiece combo on my '71 S90 and it intonates and plays much better without altering the sound. Your luthier should be able to work it out and plug any existing holes.

I wonder how close one of those little telecaster half-bridges would come to covering the old bridge's mounting holes. Would be an invisibly reversible mod, although you'd have to drill the back lip of the new bridge for top-mount strings.

The Tele half-bridge I've got (no guitar for it so far) has holes for top-load as well as through-body stringing. It's the one Allparts sells. Also, an alternative to Guild's slanted stoptail is the kind Gibson used on its SG doublenecks. They're still being made, or at least were as of a couple years ago.

-Dave-

Encephalon Ricochet said:

So an update, I ordered the same bridge/tailpiece set up that is on the current S-100 reissues. Do any of you know how far back the tailpiece typically goes behind the bridge on the early 70s models?

Click to expand...

Well, here's a closeup pic of my '73:



Around 1.75" on the treble side sloping down to ~2" on the low E. I'll measure when I'm home later today, unless someone else scopes their S-100 first. (Err…see below for more accurate numbers.)

-Dave-

You can use the '70's measurement as a reference point, but your luthier will probably have to work it out precisely because the MIK reissues use a different bridge (tune-o-matic). It won't set up exactly like a '70's bridge, but it'll work out. Good luck!

I only had a tape measure to use, but this should give you an idea (my '73 S-100):





And for visual reference here's the '13 MIK I used to have:

I measured both my '71 and '73 S-100s. Both are 2 1/16" bridge-to-tailpiece at the high E string. The '71 is 2 10/16" at the sixth string while the '73 is 1/16" shorter. So…right in line with Qvart's measurements.

-Dave-

I really feel so fortunate to have this assistance. UBER MEGA thanks to both Qvart and Quantum Strummer! My luthier is going to be so happy to have those measurements and I cannot wait to get my S-90 back...it is going to kill. My fingers are trembling just thinking about it. By the way, what do you guys think of the reissue HB-1s put out by Cordoba? I have a 2014 S-100 reissue and sold it as I thought the pickups were a bit too hot and harsh on the upper mids for me, I had significant ear fatigue. Of course, after selling it and purchasing the S-90 I found out that the 2015 (onward) ones had HB-1 repros. I had the S-90 before selling the S-100 reissue and did several back and forth A/B tests. The HB-1s in the S-90 definetily seemed much more balanced, not as compressed sounding (the dynamics of my pick attack came through much more) and had a very smooth resonance, while still bright. I noticed that Guild sells the new HB-1s for about 160 a pair and was wondering if it is worth it to pick up a pair and try them in the S-90, assuming they are pretty close. Unfortunetely there is no Guild dealer in all of Colorado that has an S-100 reissue in stock, no one seems to care about them!

Hey Guys,

I have decided to sell the '71 S-90. I know you are going to think I'm crazy, but I cant afford to drop the dough to do the refret/install the bridge right now. I wanted to come here first to see if anyone is interested in purchasing it for 700 dollars. I paid 600 for it (after shipping) and already invested 160 dollars into it getting the fretboard re-glued (the glue was old and it was a bit loose), the electronics all cleaned up, and setting it up for 11s. I would keep it of course if I could, but I have some other financial obligations sadly. Please let me know what you think and review the earlier post to the thread for more details. I still have all the packing materials from when I received it about a month ago and it came with a soft case as well. I will get another one...or S-100 someday!

Thanks and please let me know if you would like any more info on it

Just for future reference: sonically I'd say the '70s HB-1s in my two S-100s are transparent pickups, in that they amplify the basic acoustic sound of both guitars without adding any noticeable coating on top of that sound. There's a dryness to their tone, especially in the treble frequencies. Other folks have referred to the HB-1s as sounding "woody"…I think it's this clear, unvarnished quality they mean. My '71 is a bright, ringy guitar acoustically and that's exactly what it sounds like plugged in. The '73 is a quieter, more smooth-toned (a bit compressed even) instrument and that's what it too sounds like amplified.

In contrast I'd describe Gibson PAFs and patent # pickups as having a sweeter, more colored sound. If HB-1s are an unfinished guitar then PAFs are that guitar with a coat of primer and patent #s have a lightly tinted coat or two atop the primer.

-Dave-