S-200 Thunderbird bridge pick up height

T-Wolf

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Hi Guys
I've had my Thunderbird for 2 weeks now, and I'm loving it!
I traded a 2004 American Deluxe Strat and I'm not sorry at all.
It's easily as well made and finished, it has a much nicer neck and fretboard and the tones are just lovely.

I'm curious about the setup of the neck pick up though.
It seems to angle quite a bit down towards the bridge (i.e. Away from the strings), and it's noticeably quieter than the neck pick up.
I kind of expected that, but maybe not so much..??

I'd like to know any other owners opinions, thanks.
 

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Hi T-wolf. Many discussions about the bridge pup. Basically, the bridge pup has 2/3 the windings that the neck pickup has. Soooo, the workaround is to drop the neck pickup down and to run the bridge pickup right up to the strings. If that doesn't work for you, you can buy another neck pickup and substitute it for the bridge pup.
 

Quantum Strummer

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Here's what I'd suggest (and what I did with my T-bird): raise the bridge pickup 'til it gives you more oomph and then lower the neck p'up to match it volume-wise. I found this not only balanced the volumes but also clarified the neck p'up sound and gave the dual pickup setting just a hint of snarl. You may have to do some tweaking, as I did, before finding your desired balance.

Now if you prefer a darker, more mid-y bridge pickup sound, you could replace the original p'up with a second neck p'up. I'm a clarity guy myself and love the spanky sound of the bridge LB-1.

I wouldn't worry about the pickup tilt. If anything it enhances clarity a smidge by making the pickup coils sense the strings at different distances (thus reducing the degree of hum cancelling). Of course it's also the reason Guild went with three adjustment screws for the HB-1 pickup.

-Dave-
 
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Eric Vinc3nt

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Hi Guys
I've had my Thunderbird for 2 weeks now, and I'm loving it!
I traded a 2004 American Deluxe Strat and I'm not sorry at all.
It's easily as well made and finished, it has a much nicer neck and fretboard and the tones are just lovely.

My S-200 is also about two weeks old - did you and me order ours from the same batch via Sweetwater? And yeah, I'm precisely with you regarding everything else you stated there (former MIA Strat devotee myself). This T-Bird reissue is all that. Guild really nailed it.

I'm curious about the setup of the (bridge) pick up though.
It seems to angle quite a bit down towards the bridge (i.e. Away from the strings), and it's noticeably quieter than the neck pick up.
I kind of expected that, but maybe not so much..??

I'd like to know any other owners opinions, thanks.

My S-200 arrived set up the same way as you described, but I'm hearing slightly different results than what you described. First off, I would advise caution and patience before making any drastic changes such as subbing out pickups or the like. It's a reissue of a classic vintage instrument, and Guild's luthiers went to some lengths to create a faithful one.

A neck pickup will tend to pick up more volume than a bridge pickup due to the physics involved: the neck pickup is closer to the apex of where the strings vibrate, whereas the bridge pickup is way off to one end of that apex. With the S-200's circuit design, the "mode" switch can compensate for that, because you can set dedicated volume and tone settings for each pickup, which is the real genius of this guitar.

The one peculiar idiosyncrasy I discovered on my S-200, is that the neck pickup in mode 1 is a bit louder than the neck-only setting in mode 2, but I'd chalked that up to the extra circuitry in mode 2 inherently imposing a slight attenuation. Again, that extra set of volume/tone pots sets things straight.

As you're probably aware, as you raise a pickup closer to the strings, the addition of volume comes with a correlating subtraction in sustain, so don't go too crazy raising that bridge pickup, because set as-is, the S-200 has some real nice sustain qualities.

Bear in mind, I've been a lifelong studio recording rat, and the S-200's LB-1 pickups, combined with its body and neck architecture, in that regard have a lot of nuance to my ears. Where I'm going with this: Bias. When recording vocals, I've learned to set the LDC microphone at an angle to the vocalist, rather than a flat perpendicular, because the diaphragm at a bias will pick up more nuances of the voice's character. I believe the S-200's bridge pickup is likewise set at a bias to the strings, to pick up more nuance.

I'm not an expert, so I could be wrong, but I just love the sound and feel of this guitar as-is. YMMV.
 

guildman63

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I think the initial post has a typo. You meant to say the BRIDGE pickup is quieter than expected?

I would set up the bridge pickup to your preferred height, then adjust the neck pickup accordingly. That should take care of your problem.

If you meant that the neck pickup is noticeably quieter than the bridge pickup still do the above. If the neck pickup is still too quiet raise the pole pieces. If still too quiet have the neck pup checked out to make sure it is not defective.
 
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Resistance on the bridge pup is 5.05k. Neck pup is 7.25k.
This is noticeable, at least to me. Cordoba/Guild is not concerned with the mismatch, so you have to come up with a workaround.
 

T-Wolf

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I think the initial post has a typo. You meant to say the BRIDGE pickup is quieter than expected?

I would set up the bridge pickup to your preferred height, then adjust the neck pickup accordingly. That should take care of your problem.

If you meant that the neck pickup is noticeably quieter than the bridge pickup still do the above. If the neck pickup is still too quiet raise the pole pieces. If still too quiet have the neck pup checked out to make sure it is not defective.

Yes, sorry I did mean BRIDGE pickup
 

T-Wolf

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Here's what I'd suggest (and what I did with my T-bird): raise the bridge pickup 'til it gives you more oomph and then lower the neck p'up to match it volume-wise. I found this not only balanced the volumes but also clarified the neck p'up sound and gave the dual pickup setting just a hint of snarl. You may have to do some tweaking, as I did, before finding your desired balance.

Now if you prefer a darker, more mid-y bridge pickup sound, you could replace the original p'up with a second neck p'up. I'm a clarity guy myself and love the spanky sound of the bridge LB-1.

I wouldn't worry about the pickup tilt. If anything it enhances clarity a smidge by making the pickup coils sense the strings at different distances (thus reducing the degree of hum cancelling). Of course it's also the reason Guild went with three
adjustment screws for the HB-1 pickup.

-Dave-


The pickup doesn't tilt across the body as normal to account for different string thickness/tension.
It tilts backwards towards the bridge.
 

T-Wolf

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My S-200 is also about two weeks old - did you and me order ours from the same batch via Sweetwater? And yeah, I'm precisely with you regarding everything else you stated there (former MIA Strat devotee myself). This T-Bird reissue is all that. Guild really nailed it.



My S-200 arrived set up the same way as you described, but I'm hearing slightly different results than what you described. First off, I would advise caution and patience before making any drastic changes such as subbing out pickups or the like. It's a reissue of a classic vintage instrument, and Guild's luthiers went to some lengths to create a faithful one.

A neck pickup will tend to pick up more volume than a bridge pickup due to the physics involved: the neck pickup is closer to the apex of where the strings vibrate, whereas the bridge pickup is way off to one end of that apex. With the S-200's circuit design, the "mode" switch can compensate for that, because you can set dedicated volume and tone settings for each pickup, which is the real genius of this guitar.

The one peculiar idiosyncrasy I discovered on my S-200, is that the neck pickup in mode 1 is a bit louder than the neck-only setting in mode 2, but I'd chalked that up to the extra circuitry in mode 2 inherently imposing a slight attenuation. Again, that extra set of volume/tone pots sets things straight.

As you're probably aware, as you raise a pickup closer to the strings, the addition of volume comes with a correlating subtraction in sustain, so don't go too crazy raising that bridge pickup, because set as-is, the S-200 has some real nice sustain qualities.

Bear in mind, I've been a lifelong studio recording rat, and the S-200's LB-1 pickups, combined with its body and neck architecture, in that regard have a lot of nuance to my ears. Where I'm going with this: Bias. When recording vocals, I've learned to set the LDC microphone at an angle to the vocalist, rather than a flat perpendicular, because the diaphragm at a bias will pick up more nuances of the voice's character. I believe the S-200's bridge pickup is likewise set at a bias to the strings, to pick up more nuance.

I'm not an expert, so I could be wrong, but I just love the sound and feel of this guitar as-is. YMMV.

Thanks for taking the time to answer, and for correcting my typo.
I picked mine up at Wunjo Guitars in London (they are great guys by the way). I brought my Strat all the way from Cape Town South Africa to do the trade.
Don't get me wrong I absolutely love the stock tones, sustain and the dynamic nuances of this instrument.
I made a slight adjustment today, I raised the BRIDGE pickup just a little, working in full turns of the screws so I could wind it back down again easily.
I ended up at just 1 full turn up from where it was.
It sounds more balanced now in neck & bridge position, with a bit more punch in the bridge only. I don't feel I've lost anything in tonality or sustain.
And I completely agree with you on not messing with the stock setup too much.
I too find the neck pickup slightly louder in mode 1, also put that down to any extra wiring/circuitry.

Thanks again and happy playing
 

Quantum Strummer

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"Mismatched" pickups don't bother me so long as they can be adjusted. Classic Teles have neck p'ups that measure hotter (DC resistance) than their bridge pickups, but because of the differences in wire gauge (43 neck, 42 bridge, with rare exceptions in both cases) put out about the same amount of perceived signal. The situation is similar with the LB-1s, historically wrong (in terms of being mismatched) though they are. The two p'ups blend together well in my T-bird, and the bridge on its own has a clarity & spank that I really like.

-Dave-
 

Quantum Strummer

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The pickup doesn't tilt across the body as normal to account for different string thickness/tension. It tilts backwards towards the bridge.

Yes. This is what I was referring to re. Guild switching to a three-screw adjustment scheme with the later HB-1 pickups. The original "anti-hum" pickups, of which the LB-1s are a modern re-creation, tend to tilt forward or backward…at least this is what I've seen with the '60s Guilds I've played and the Bluesbird I own. Again, I wouldn't worry about it.

-Dave-
 

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I've always assumed the neck-to-bridge capability to be for guitars with neck angles that render a pickup that's level with the body to be not level with the strings.

As for the setup from Guild, I'd assume that there wasn't one based on some of the NS stuff I've seen (like no bridge slots on my NS Bluesbird).

In other words whatever the position of the pickup, I'd attribute to the random "looks good" state given by the guy with the screwdriver as opposed to some sort of "setup" that we'd like to expect.

I could be wrong, though. Happens all the time. :rapture:
 

Quantum Strummer

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My T-bird certainly got a setup, in that the intonation & neck relief were spot on for the .010 string set it came with and the frets were properly dressed & leveled. (I feel these guitars should be strung with & set up for .011s, but that's a different issue.) The pickup heights were fine too, though I messed with 'em almost immediately 'cuz that's what I do. :) The Bluesbird bridge thing is weird…

-Dave-
 

Quantum Strummer

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Forgot yesterday to include the following pic of my T-bird, taken shortly after I unboxed it. It's also in the NGD thread I started at the time. Both pickups are tilted, the neck just a little and the bridge more obviously. I can wiggle 'em both back & forth somewhat, but where they're at in the pic is where they return to of their own accord. It has to do with the size & shape of the pickups and the nature of the mounting mechanism.

B30D0FFB-DEC4-43C7-ABF6-29555F2A60AB_zpsitorptj3.jpg


When I first got my Nightbird I played around with each pickup's three screws, tilting the p'ups forward & backward. For awhile I left the bridge p'up tilted forward as it gave me some extra zing in split-coil (rear coil only) mode. But eventually I set it parallel to the strings and have left it there since.

-Dave-
 

Eric Vinc3nt

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Forgot yesterday to include the following pic of my T-bird, taken shortly after I unboxed it. It's also in the NGD thread I started at the time. Both pickups are tilted, the neck just a little and the bridge more obviously.

Dave,

The bridge pickup on my T-Bird is tilted EXACTLY the same way as yours.

It sounds facking great that way, IMHO.

Why?

You described it best when you posted, "the bridge (pup) on its own has a clarity & spank that I really like."

It's because the pickup, subtly articulated toward the bridge, is aimed at the maximum "spank" zone: where the strings meet the bridge.

</conjecture>
 
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