Guild GF60 tuners

dyldog1

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Just throwing this out there to see if someone can advise me. I own a fantastic Guild GF60 and suspect it'll be taken to the grave with me one day. I've owned it for a number of years now but the previous owner replaced the heavily tarnished tuners with gold Grovers with ebony knobs. I've never been totally happy with the aesthetics of the tuners especially because 6 screw hole marks are left at the back of the headstock. Obviously the original tuners had 2 screws per tuner whilst the Grover tuners only require one. Anyway one of the ebony buttons has failed & even though I've used epoxy to temporarily solve the problem, I'd like to replace all of them with tuners with gold hardware. Could someone offer me some advice on which ones are best and which would fill both screw holes again. I've no idea what the original tuners were but I'm sure someone will know & also be able to advise on the best fit replacements. Many thanks.
 

hansmoust

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I own a fantastic Guild GF60 and suspect it'll be taken to the grave with me one day. I've owned it for a number of years now but the previous owner replaced the heavily tarnished tuners with gold Grovers with ebony knobs. I've never been totally happy with the aesthetics of the tuners especially because 6 screw hole marks are left at the back of the headstock. Obviously the original tuners had 2 screws per tuner whilst the Grover tuners only require one. I'd like to replace all of them with tuners with gold hardware. Could someone offer me some advice on which ones are best and which would fill both screw holes again. I've no idea what the original tuners were but I'm sure someone will know & also be able to advise on the best fit replacements. Many thanks.

Hello dyldog,

Depending on the year your GF60 was completed, the original tuners would have been 'Nickel' plated Gotoh replica's of Grover Sealfast tuners or the same Gotoh tuners in 'Gold'; these were changed to Grover RotoMatic a little later. Since you have the extra hole above the tuners, we can assume your GF60 originally had the Gotoh units. What are the last 2 digits of your serial number?

http://www.guitarchives.nl/guitarsgalore/parts_detail.php?id=67

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 
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dyldog1

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Hi Hans,
Thanks for your quick posting. Funny enough the previous owner told me he sold the original tuners to your good self :joyous: The serial number is GF600048 incidentally. The present tuners are gold Grover Rotomatics with ebony buttons. Ideally I'd like to fill all the holes again with new gold tuners. Another quick question, if you don't mind me asking, could this GF60 have an adirondack top rather than a sitka spruce top? I've never seen such tight woodgrain in my life & in all honesty the wood grain is barely discernible. I have a Tippin OMT with ancient "salmon crate" sitka which is incredibly tight grained but the GF60 is even tighter grained. Did Guild use adirondack in those days when quality control was overseen by Kim Walker? The GF60 plays incredibly & is so responsive to the slightest touch, it plays fingerstyle equally well to strumming. Thanks again for your input to my thread.
 

wileypickett

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Sounds like it might be possible to reunite the guitar with its original tuners!

(Though whoever replaced them in the first place may have done so for a reason.)
 

chazmo

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dyldog1,

Just curious, but what led you to think that tight-grained spruce on your Guild would be Adirondack? While there is some tight-grained red spruce out there, most of what I've seen over the years is much wider-grained than typical old-growth Sitka. Plus, it'd be rare to see all tight-grained red spruce; most of the time you'd see variation in the top.

All that said, would love to see a picture of your GF-60's soundboard.
 

hansmoust

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Sounds like it might be possible to reunite the guitar with its original tuners!

The original tuners were used to complete a Guild Nightbird a long time ago. I know where the guitar is, so I could probably get them back, but it's more practical to find another set.

Though whoever replaced them in the first place may have done so for a reason.

It is my experience that the people who replace them don't like the feel of the small tuner buttons and prefer the grip of the bigger buttons, like you would find on Grovers or Schallers. The Gotoh tuners are excellent tuners though and should be no problem for anyone who's already familiar with the smaller tuner buttons of the Kluson tuners that you find on every Fender guitar.

Personally I love the look of the Gotohs and the Grover Sealfast tuners they were patterned after.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

tommym

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I have a similar model (the F-44) and at one time was looking for one-for-one replacement turners too, but with a chrome finish as nickel plating doesn't hold up well in humid weather. Seems they were never available in chrome finish, so that was the end of that search. That being said, on the F-44, the stock ferrules through me a loop when I first remove the tuners, as what I thought was a removable washer under hex nut, was in fact part of the ferrule. That was the first time I saw that type of a setup. I decided not to mess with that and chance damaging the nitro finish below. So I'm stuck with the original nickel plated hardware for now.

Tommy
 

hansmoust

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I have a similar model (the F-44) and at one time was looking for one-for-one replacement turners too, but with a chrome finish as nickel plating doesn't hold up well in humid weather. Seems they were never available in chrome finish, so that was the end of that search.
That being said, on the F-44, the stock ferrules through me a loop when I first remove the tuners, as what I thought was a removable washer under hex nut, was in fact part of the ferrule. That was the first time I saw that type of a setup. I decided not to mess with that and chance damaging the nitro finish below. So I'm stuck with the original nickel plated hardware for now.

Hello Tommy,

You're mistaken about the washer being part of the ferrule, or I do not understand what you are describing. Anyway, the tuners have a removable washer under the hex nut and you should be able to remove the tuners without damaging the finish.

As an alternative for the gold or the nickel tuners, you might want to consider the same tuners in 'black'. Those were used on the very first Nightbirds that were introduced during the mid-'80s. They do not wear as easily and would look quite classy on your F-44.

Here's what they look like on an early Nightbird:

NightbirdGG_tuners.jpg
NightbirdGG_headstock.jpg


Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 
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chazmo

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I agree 100% with you right there, Hans. The black hardware looks great on that G-shield snakehead. "Classy" is the perfect description.
 

wileypickett

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Beauty! Are those vintage or does someone make a contemporary version?

Hello Tommy,

You're mistaken about the washer being part of the ferrule, or I do not understand what you are describing. Anyway, the tuners have a removable washer under the hex nut and you should be able to remove the tuners without damaging the finish.

As an alternative for the gold or the nickel tuners, you might want to consider the same tuners in 'black'. Those were used on the very first Nightbirds that were introduced during the mid-'80s. They do not wear as easily and would look quite classy on your F-44.

Here's what they look like on an early Nightbird:

NightbirdGG_tuners.jpg
NightbirdGG_headstock.jpg


Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

tommym

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Hello Tommy,

You're mistaken about the washer being part of the ferrule, or I do not understand what you are describing.

Hi Hans,

This is not the exact part, but something similar to what I was trying to describe; what appears to be a removable washer when view from the top / face of the headstock, is in fact part of the ferrule and not readily removable. On my install, the hollow hex bolt slides down through the hole to allow it to screw into the body of the tuner below. The final install looks like a hex bolt (nut?) installed over a removable washer. It's built like a tank!

Thanks for the tip on those black tuners; I never knew they existed.

WASHER_zps2zppafua.jpg
 

hansmoust

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This is not the exact part, but something similar to what I was trying to describe; what appears to be a removable washer when view from the top / face of the headstock, is in fact part of the ferrule and not readily removable. On my install, the hollow hex bolt slides down through the hole to allow it to screw into the body of the tuner below. The final install looks like a hex bolt (nut?) installed over a removable washer. It's built like a tank!

Sorry Tommy, I did understand it correctly, but what you are describing is not the original part for the tuner.

Here's a photo that shows you the correct parts:

http://www.guitarchives.nl/guitarsgalore//parts_detail.php?id=129

Thanks for the tip on those black tuners; I never knew they existed.

Beauty! Are those vintage or does someone make a contemporary version?

Actually, they're no longer part of the Gotoh line, just like the 'Gold' and the 'Nickel' ones, but I had a source for 'new old stock' sets and I still may be able to get some; not really sure about that, but I can try!

Just let me know.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 
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adorshki

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dyldog1,

Just curious, but what led you to think that tight-grained spruce on your Guild would be Adirondack? While there is some tight-grained red spruce out there, most of what I've seen over the years is much wider-grained than typical old-growth Sitka.
Forgive the butt-inski, but that's interesting info, didn't know that.
I got that tight grain was exactly why he asked.
I was going to mention to dyldog (Welcome aboard, by the way, dyldog!) that when the question has come up in past, we've never found any reference from Guild to use of Adirondack before Tacoma era.
One member brought up the fact that the supply situation made it extremely unlikely prior to the mid '90's, when some boutique makers finally started finding usable-sized-and-quality pieces again after the forests had recovered enough from over-harvesting during WWII in particular.
I realize now we all took him at his word but I believe it was corroborated by other info, like the primary old-growth Adirondacks stands now being in protected National Parklands and under harvesting restrictions.
 

hansmoust

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Hello dyldog1,

Your PM box is full, but I can write you here, so other members will have this info as well:

dyldog1 said:
Sorry I thought those tuners were sold. In the meantime I've now been pointed in the direction of Stewmac and realise these tuners are available.

Yes, those tuners are available from StewMac, but keep in mind that they are replicas of the originals, so they are a bit different from the Gotoh-made ones that were on there originally. The main difference being the fact that the new ones have the same tuner and separate press-fit bushing as the original Kluson had. The Gotoh-made ones have the screw-in bushing that fastens the tuner to the headstock; the screws only keep the tuner from not turning around. I'm not sure if the press-fit bushings will stay in place on the pre-drilled headstock, but maybe they will!

Also, I believe that the re-issues are only available with the Keystone button (=Gibson style), which would look out of place on a smaller Guild headstock.

I will check if my source still has some left.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 
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dyldog1

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Thanks Chazmo for your comments regarding the adirondack issue. I'll try to post some pictures in the nearish future but my camera is on the blink & my mobile doesn't do high res close ups too well. I only asked because the GF60 top wood is incredibly tight grained in places, so tight it's not visible & where there are wider grain variations, there's a distinctive red tinge to the grain. It's also got a beautiful subtle amount of silking in it too. And I've read various threads in the past where old sitka versus adirondack has been raised. It's almost certainly old sitka anyway but I thought I'd ask Hans, the expert. Don't know why but I stayed clear of old sitka for awhile, during my grail seeking boutique quest.....seeking only Italian/Alpine/Engelman types for subtle fingerstyle. Strangely enough my 2 favourite keepers right now are sitka topped (Goodall & Tippin) and of course the Guild GF60 ....plus I await a Greven new build using ancient sitka (on John's advice). There's a lot of tonewood snobbery & ill advice out there but nothing beats playtime experience and advice from iconic old heads

Thanks adorshki for your kind welcome & input. I'm not a newbie and originally enrolled many years ago under neildealdylan which is my name on other forums. I've been in the Guild wilderness for many years seeking grail alternatives but always checked into the LTG website intermittently. I couldn't access my other member name for some reason so I joined again using dyldog1. Guild guitars will always be my first love & I'll always have that soft spot for them. But styles & tastes change over time, eh? There's a place for the modern sound, a place for the vintage vibe & also somewhere "traditional" in between.But I'll always cleave to my favourite Guilds.

Email/PM sent Hans, I await your response on Gotoh availability :joyous:
 

tommym

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I had a source for 'new old stock' sets and I still may be able to get some; not really sure about that, but I can try!

Thanks for the offer Hans, but I think for now I'll just battle it out with the current nickel plated hardware. When I change out the strings (in a week or two), I'll try to get some clear photos of the current installed ferrules with the tuners removed, as I have to polish the tuners again in any case.

Tommy
 

tommym

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OK, I'm #@%&*^& delusional....:chargrined:

I finally got around to changing the strings and removing the hardware on my F44 so I could polish the nickel finish, and they are just a describe by Hans; they do indeed have surface mounted removable washers. What was I looking at in my previous posts????? Maybe some other guitar? I don't know.....I'm confused.

The good news is that I finally polished those darn washers (along with the rest of the hardware that I removed) and the reinstalled hardware looks GREAT! FINALLY!


Tommy
 

tommym

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Some photos of the cleaned up nickel plated hardware. I used a product called MASS Metal Polish (French Lavender fragrance :); it's a real messy process polishing nickel plating so your have to remove the hardware from the guitar so you don't get any of the polish on your guitar finish and possibly destroy it.....:applause:

Do you think the gold plated versions would look better, or out of place? Typically, Guild has use gold plated hardware on the maple guitars. I think it's a toss up at best, and will leave this nickel plated ones on this one.

I also took the time to polish the frets and install a Mitchel's "PlateMate" on the underside of the bridge plate as it's had no negative effect on the sound of the rest of my guitar herd, so why not.

Tommy

P1220052_zpsandd9ghn.jpg


P1220054_zpswk8zx7y1.jpg


P1220060_zpsbrjeutyq.jpg


P1220066_zpst9czh595.jpg
 

chazmo

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I prefer gold against the black headstock. Or, black, since I saw some of Hans' pictures. But, really, you did a beautiful job cleaning those up, tommy. If they work satisfactorily then stick with 'em.
 
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