D-25M flat back VS arched

adorshki

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I never really consider the DV-25 to be part of the "direct" D-25 lineage...
Actually I agree. Just wanted to acknowledge we're aware of it and it's a real "oddball".
I'm thinking now maybe it bridged the gap between DV-6 and revived D40, but can't readily compare production years from s/n records and don't have catalogs to research with.
Heck now that I think about it there was even a DV-4 in '99 at least, same thing, flat-backed 'hog.
I think maybe what I'm noticing is that the DV build details definitely excluded arched backs.
And I can understand why you consider "DV" 's to be a different type of instrument from the standard dreadnought builds even when there are model number similarities.



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The DV-6 is a problematic model: The Westerly DV-6 model had mahogany back and sides (I think it was flat-backed)
Yes all versions of DV-6's were flat-backed and as far as I can tell they simply replaced the D40 (starting as D6 in '93) for a while as the flat-back 'hog body dread.
Going by s/n charts, it looks like they only built about 30 D40's per year in '90, 91, and '92, so maybe that's why the new model.
Then we've got the curious situation of D40 being revived just before move to Corona, no DV6 in Corona, in fact no arched back dreads out of Corona OR Tacoma OR NH, and then DV6 coming back in rosewood as you said.
 

adorshki

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Great feedback, this is getting interesting!

How would an all-hog arch-back D15 compare sonically to an all-hog archback D25?
I'm looking at a couple of D15s... I like what I'm seeing. Haven't seen many (any?) arch-back all-hog
D25's for sale recently...
Yeah the all-hog archback D25's are kind of a "holy grail" and were only "officially" made from '72 to '74 (and excepting/allowing for the later oddball outliers we've seen reported, as I mentioned in another current and similar thread)
There's never been a surplus of 'em, that's for sure.


A D-15 was basically the relaunch of the all- hog archback D25, all the body dimensions and wood specs are the same, except maybe the snakehead headstock found on D15's, for those of us who believe the headstock has a subtle effect on tone.
Also the dreads underwent a change in upper bout bracing in early '80's from the Martin-style "popsicle stick" straight transverse brace under the fretboard extension to a "wing" type with a beefier and redesigned heelblock, intended to enhance neck stability.
That might also have a subtle effect on "tone" (enhanced sustain)
Don't know not sure if there were any other changes like thickness of body woods or bracing that might have occurred between '74 and '87.
D17's were also all-hog archbacks with white binding and standard gloss finish whereas D15's were the "low bling" entry.
 

GardMan

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Well, I happen to own both flatbacks, a '71 D-25 and a '73 D-35, which appear to be, in every detail, to be exactly the same guitar with different tops.

Their tones are more similar than they are different. I hear a lot of mahogany out of the D-35, but the spruce top makes it sound a bit warmer. The mahogany-topped D-25 is a little more forward-sounding, more aggressive, and a little louder.

Both are keepers, and ridiculous values in today's market.
In January '73, I A/B'd a flat-topped all mahogany D-25 and spruce-topped D-35 in a small shop on N. Burnside in Portland Oregon. At the end of the day, I laid down my $$$ and walked out with a '72 D-35, that I took home on the bus in a loaner chipboard case (borrowed until the next payday, when I went back and bought the hardshell case). I was 17-1/2 years old... I still have that D-35...
 

GardMan

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A D-15 was basically the relaunch of the all- hog archback D25, all the body dimensions and wood specs are the same, except maybe the snakehead headstock found on D15's, for those of us who believe the headstock has a subtle effect on tone.
According to my notes, the D-15/16/17 series was introduced in '83 (15 & 16) and '84 (17), and discontinued in '86 (16), '88 (17), and '89 (15; from the SN lists... so not necessarily accurate). So, the earlier models would have had the old "dome-style, ""center-raised," or "paddle" headstock... later examples may have had the "snakehead."
 

Bonneville88

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Thanks gentlemen... very detailed info... cool. D17s seem to be pretty rare
as well... found one that sold awhile back on Reverb. I LIKE that white binding on the D17.
But there's two good to excellent D15s for sale... they look almost identical, both '88's
 

adorshki

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According to my notes, the D-15/16/17 series was introduced in '83 (15 & 16) and '84 (17), and discontinued in '86 (16), '88 (17), and '89 (15; from the SN lists... so not necessarily accurate).
Dave what lists are you looking at? (admittedly I thought they came out in '86, but I was never as big a "fan" of 'em as D25's)
Looking at s/n lists I see they (the '15's) ran all the way through '94? (another surprise to me)
So, the earlier models would have had the old "dome-style, ""center-raised," or "paddle" headstock... later examples may have had the "snakehead."
Yes, was going by my memory of recent searches and couldn't recall ever seeing one with a paddle headstock.
I shoulda remembered Bikerdoc's is an early one with paddle-style headstock:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?177174-Guild-Headstocks-(Logos)/page2
(which btw, Bonneville, he recently confirmed he'll never sell, if that's any kind of useful info. :friendly_wink: )

Just now I spotted a '90 D15 with a snakehead headstock,
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1990-Guild-...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


Shoot all this talk's gettin' me hotted up to try an all-hog archie, when here I thought all I wanted was a piece of Grand Orchestra sized rosewood. (F30R)
 
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davismanLV

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Eifelstrum, welcome to the forum!! I noticed you slipped in there in the middle of this discussion. Thanks for chiming in. :encouragement:
 

Westerly Wood

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someone should look at this one: https://reverb.com/item/4724011-guild-d25m-1983-mahogany
I would buy it but in a $ crunch at the moment. It will be gone by time I would be ready.

I like the stain on top. I know it had a stock repair but it looks to be in decent D25 condition. Al, it even has old guild strings, light gauge, interesting. so these did not ship with mediums...

strings mfg for Guild by D'Addario?
 

adorshki

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Al, it even has old guild strings, light gauge, interesting. so these did not ship with mediums...
I do recall your search to deduce what your BR would have shipped with a while back, and that you came up with mediums after Hans gave you a tip about alloys?
I think they went to lights in late '70's, maybe early '80's.
Just saw a report of a '78 D40 that was so overbuilt it had no tone, so maybe they didn't lighten up until later.
strings mfg for Guild by D'Addario?

I'd say that's about a 99% certainty.
Guild jumped on board with D'Addario's PB when they invented it in '74, not sure if they used 'em prior to that.
It also occurred to me that maybe reports of other makers for Guild (DR, for one) may have been for other alloys and electrics. A look at the price lists from '70's and '80's on Westerlyguildguitars.com shows a good variety of string choices.
 

adorshki

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Eifelstrum, welcome to the forum!! I noticed you slipped in there in the middle of this discussion. Thanks for chiming in. :encouragement:

And thanks to you for pointing it out, I would have missed it.
He seems to corroborate my perception of what I think the primary strength of the '25 is now, too.
Welcome aboard, "Eifel" !
 

GardMan

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Dave what lists are you looking at?
Sometimes I just don't continue to scroll down... my bad. Yes, the SN list has the D-15 extending to at least 1994.

Before I got bit by the DV-7X bug, my next acquisition was to be either an all-mahogany D-25 from '73, or an '80s D-17... those D-17s in natural mahogany sure are pretty! Maybe someday...
 
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