X170t for Jazz?

CharleyRich

Junior Member
Joined
May 8, 2017
Messages
37
Reaction score
19
Location
Sarasota, Fl
Guild Total
2
Can the x170t be used for Jazz? Can I get a Joe Pass or Pat Martino type of sound? Or due to the metal bridge it too bright and best suitable for Rockabilly?

I am looking at purchasing an x170t but I am more of a Jazz player and not so much Rockabilly.

--Charley
 

shihan

Senior Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Jan 18, 2013
Messages
1,540
Reaction score
796
Location
Ventura CA
Yes, yes, yes. X-170's are great jazz guitars. Warm, round and articulate. Sounds like you want a 170 without the Guildsby, though. If you buy one and want to swap the Guildsby for a harp tailpiece, PM me.
 

AcornHouse

Venerated Member
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
10,216
Reaction score
7,226
Location
Bidwell, OH
Guild Total
21
I would say get an X-170, no t, as Dennis said, unless a whammy is part of your jazz language. I had one, and it's great for jazz.
 

JohnW63

Enlightened Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2012
Messages
6,295
Reaction score
2,217
Location
Southern California
Guild Total
4
If you find a really good price on a T model, I would probably give it a try. Yes, a Rosewood only bridge may give a different tone, but it's not a BIG change. At least according to my tests with the Newark St. models with and without.
 

matsickma

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2005
Messages
4,280
Reaction score
1,028
Location
Coopersburg, PA
The key thing is to get the right year of manufacture. The last X170 and X170T's manufactured used Fender made humbuckers which lacked the classic Guild HB1 tone. They tend to be dull sounding and are the least preferred pickups by Guild enthusiast. Guitars of the 90's have SD made HB1's and are a close approximation to the Guild HB1's. If you want to be sure you have Guild HB1's buy a X170/T built before 1996 when Fender bought Guild. Late 1980's models are pure Guild parts.

Because you are interested in a vibrato equiped X170 T you might also consider a late 80's early 90's X160T (late 80's) or X161 (early 90's). Same guitar but different model number. This is a less ornate chrome finish model with dot in lieu of block fret inlays and no neck binding. These have beautiful finishes.On this model Guild installed a full rosewood bridge with the Guildsby! The rosewood allows the strings to slide with the bigsby and softens up the tone to which will be perfect for your jazz work. Also if you perfer the fancier X170T style then replace the metal bigsby bridge with a all rosewood model.

A subtle point...although X160's were supposed to be the lower priced model their rairity tends to have them cost more.Be carefully when searching for one because Guild has the weird habit of reusing Model numbers and their is a Rockibilly X160 model that has Dearmond pickups that is a completely different guitar from the X170T/X160T/X161.

Their are certain features that many Guild enthusiast can use to know the features of a giver year of manufacture. Those at LTG can advise you along the way.
M
 

CharleyRich

Junior Member
Joined
May 8, 2017
Messages
37
Reaction score
19
Location
Sarasota, Fl
Guild Total
2
Thanks everyone for all the helpful advice! The x170t I was eying slipped through my fingers. I will stay alert for an x170t or an x160t when one comes on the market.

--Charley
 

CharleyRich

Junior Member
Joined
May 8, 2017
Messages
37
Reaction score
19
Location
Sarasota, Fl
Guild Total
2
In searching for an x170t I ran across a number of folks complaining about the guitar's shallow neck angle and neck movement.

Is that a real problem that happens frequently to this model of guitar?

-Charley
 

gilded

Senior Member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
3,479
Reaction score
197
Location
texas
The shallow angle on an X-170T helps the Bigsby function as smoothly as possible. The X-170 may have more downforce with the more acute breakover angle, but it won't help the Bigsby.

You pays your money and you makes your choice!
 

GAD

Reverential Morlock
Über-Morlock
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
22,594
Reaction score
17,816
Location
NJ (The nice part)
Guild Total
112
All great answers.

Remember, there are many types of jazz. Hell, you can use a Tele for jazz. It's the cat, not the rig (says the guy with more rig than cat) :)

00000007.jpg


JohnScofield-800x534.jpg
 

dbirchett

Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
938
Reaction score
90
Aah, GAD. You've got an X-170T inbound do you. It will be interesting to see the report on that one. Please compare the neck angle between that one and the X-170 you already have.

Guild really ought to reissue the X-170.
 

GAD

Reverential Morlock
Über-Morlock
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
22,594
Reaction score
17,816
Location
NJ (The nice part)
Guild Total
112
Aah, GAD. You've got an X-170T inbound do you. It will be interesting to see the report on that one. Please compare the neck angle between that one and the X-170 you already have.

Guild really ought to reissue the X-170.

Will do. I don't think they'll be different though. I've owned both in the past and here's the neck joints from both a X170T and a X170 from the same era. I think what people might be complaining about is that the X170T looks like an X170 with a Guildsby slapped on. In other words they're complaining that the neck joints are the same and they think they shouldn't be? I don't remember any issues with the X170T, and in fact I bought another because I really miss the one I had.

_B0Z6326_800.jpg


_B0Z4351_800.jpg
 

CharleyRich

Junior Member
Joined
May 8, 2017
Messages
37
Reaction score
19
Location
Sarasota, Fl
Guild Total
2
What others complained about was the certainty that this model guitar would need a neck reset eventually. Truth or fiction?

-Charley
 

dbirchett

Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
938
Reaction score
90
A guy that used to set the necks on Guilds back in Westerly told me that they had different neck angles. That's why I'm asking.
 

gilded

Senior Member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
3,479
Reaction score
197
Location
texas
Charley, Don, et al,

They might or might not need a neck reset. Depends on how they are taken care of. Have the been exposed to heat? Did they find gramp's guitar in an attic and then sell it to the unwary? Is the unwary passing it on to you?

Certainly, you can make the argument that a lot of the shallow body Gibson, Gretsch and Guild guitars from the '60s and '70s are in need of neck-sets in order to use a Bigsby to it's fullest potential. Sometimes the body of the guitar will flatten out or 'sink in'. Sometimes the neck will warp or come loose.

Every guitar is different. The wood is a variable and the way the guitars have been treated is a variable. I would never buy a Bigsby-equipped axe without checking it out in person, unless the seller was a known quantity and could honestly and correctly represent the guitar as being ready to 'Bigsby-Twang' or not.

That said, I've bought a lot of Guild's that needs neck sets. Every Duane Eddy I've seen or owned needed a neck-set or already had one, including my Blonde DE-500 with the mini buckers that I owned a million years ago. If I had that guitar now, I would find a Gold Harp Tailpiece and have a great, non-trem guitar! Alas, it's gone.

Guys, 'The Bigsby Way' is a Process, a Rite of Passage, etc. 'You gotta go through it to do it!' It's like saying Condolences and Congratulations at the same time! Have fun!
 

CharleyRich

Junior Member
Joined
May 8, 2017
Messages
37
Reaction score
19
Location
Sarasota, Fl
Guild Total
2
So, can you start with an x170 and add the Bigsby to it later? If so, it is a simple replace the tailpiece with the Bigsby or will it be more involved? I don't see any x170t's on the market now.

--Charley
 

mad dog

Gone But Not Forgotten
Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
1,269
Reaction score
240
Location
Montclair, NJ
Certainly no scientific survey, but I've seen several X170s with bridge cranked down fully, no adjustment room left, yet action still a bit high. I'm not about to shave a bridge to lower action. No way to know if that neck angle is by design or not, but these guitars I saw did not appear old enough or played enough to require a neck reset.

Had the opposite experience with a couple Bluesbirds, neck set so steep that the fixed bridge had to come way up just to get it to work.
MD
 

gilded

Senior Member
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
3,479
Reaction score
197
Location
texas
It's more involved if you want it to be. Gotta get a bridge that works with a Bigsby, gotta drill extra holes, then live with the reduced value of a guitar that has extra holes if you decide to sell it, etc.

I saw 2 X-170 guitars at the Dallas show. They both had Bigsbys. One, a Chris Fleming guitar, had a great breakover angle for a Bigsby. The other one I didn't get a chance to measure and/or eyeball properly.

Several 170-T guitars come along a year. Patience is a virtue......... :)
 

matsickma

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2005
Messages
4,280
Reaction score
1,028
Location
Coopersburg, PA
I put a Guildsby on a late 80's blond X170 years ago and if my memory is correct I think the holes between the Harp and Guildsby were identical.
Had no issue with that mod. When I sold it I returned it to stock.

I too love the X170/T and have owned a few. Whenever I sold one I regretted it within a few weeks. The thin body, bout size, sound post and overall beautiful finish and wood grain is hard to give up. Wouldn't mind have more of them!
M
 
Top