Guild D-15M, should I...?

mikbass

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Hi, I'm about to pull the trigger on a D-15M but I don't have a chance to try it since it's not sold locally.
Any thoughts on this guitarmodel? Seller is asking 600€ w hardcase. condition is VG.

i'm a bass player but I need a good, solid guitar for upcoming live work.
(my -76 Ibanez concord is nice but a bit beat up and shaky.)
 

dreadnut

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That's one guitar I would like to add to my stable! What year is this one? If it's in nice shape that's a good price.
 

Bonneville88

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mikbass -

This may or may not apply to one aspect of the D15 you're considering - but -
it might not be great for large hands. I recently acquired a D17 (my understanding
is the D15 / 16 / 17 were all very similar) and love the guitar, but was surprised by
how close together the strings feel when chording / picking.

Intrigued, I took a caliper and measured the width from low E to high E, outside to outside
(medium gauge strings), and came up with 1.324" / 35.66 mm. Then measured
the width on my D30 (same strings) and found 1.48" / 36.60 mm.
The difference seems minimal, yet the the D30 is definitely more comfortable for
my XL size hands than the D17.

My D17 has a lovely, balanced tone and a clear, sweet sound, but it does not have the projection /
volume of some of my other Guild dreads.
 

CosmicArkie

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My '88 vintage D15 has the 1 11/16" nut, so is of the same stature as your D30, B88. Your D17 is most likely of the 1 5/8" variety.

That said, mikbass, the D15 is very mellow and clear as B88 said. I'm mostly a fingerpicker, so volume does not apply.
 

dreadnut

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I like the red ones. They had a beautiful finish. There are also some that are very brown.
 

GardMan

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I took a caliper and measured the width from low E to high E, outside to outside
(medium gauge strings), and came up with 1.324" / 35.66 mm. Then measured
the width on my D30 (same strings) and found 1.48" / 36.60 mm.
Even a 1-11/16" fret board can have the string to string spacing set too narrow. Consider taking your D-17 to a competent tech... he may be able to make a new nut that spreads the strings out a bit more. How much depends on the actual width of the fret board (although 1-11/16" was spec for most/all Guild dreads of that era, there was, as we know, some variability), the amount of bevel on the ends of the frets, and your playing style. You don't want the strings so close to the edge that they roll off when you fret them!
 

CosmicArkie

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Even a 1-11/16" fret board can have the string to string spacing set too narrow. Consider taking your D-17 to a competent tech... he may be able to make a new nut that spreads the strings out a bit more. How much depends on the actual width of the fret board (although 1-11/16" was spec for most/all Guild dreads of that era, there was, as we know, some variability), the amount of bevel on the ends of the frets, and your playing style. You don't want the strings so close to the edge that they roll off when you fret them!

We have a winner!
I was going to add that I acquired one of the Stew-Mac String Spacing Rules - http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Tools_by_Job/String_Spacing_Rule.html
and one of the first things I do upon receiving a new guitar is set it up according to my specs. I've used the same spacing for the 1 11/16" necks on the D15 and DCE5 on the F4CE and it has a 1 5/8" neck. Just shade them toward the 6th string because I have a habit of damping out the 1st string with my left palm if it is too close to the edge.
The F20 is 1 21/32", right in between and will get dealt with when it gets out of the shop - braces have been replaced and top repaired and first coat of clear on the top is waiting to cure.
 
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Bonneville88

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Wow, great info Gardman and Arkie... this could be a game changer for this guitar, unless
the fret board really is narrow... super cool!
 

Bonneville88

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Well, maybe not so fast...

The D17 fretboard width at the nut is 1.662" / 42.20 mm...
the D30 fretboard width at the nut is 1.718" / 43.63 mm.

Fwiw, serial# on the D17 is AL100495, bevel stamp MAR 8 1985
 
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adorshki

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Well, maybe not so fast...

The D17 fretboard width at the nut is 1.662" / 42.20 mm...
the D30 fretboard width at the nut is 1.718" / 43.63 mm.

Fwiw, serial# on the D17 is AL100495, bevel stamp MAR 8 1985

In case it was never known by the previous posters, or simply forgotten, the source of all this variation is that every single neck in Westerly was hand-finished on a belt and/or cone sander.
Sure they had profile templates, but no 2 Westerly necks are going to be identical except by extremely low odds of coincidence.
For dreadnoughts the overwhelming majority of 'em were spec'd for 1-11/16" with some known 1-3/4" specs, like a batch of '64 D40's; and some early '90's DV models ('93-'94 IIRC) that are definitely 1-3/4 even though it was never a catalog spec for those.
The 1-5/8 was found primarily on very early (late '50's) M/F-20's (IIRC) and later acoustic-electrics from the late '80's through '01, like F4ce and F65ce.
It was also common on electrics.
So on any given day it's possible a guy was given different batches of necks varying in both scale and nut width and maybe just needed to "get warmed up" after a change, as well as there being different guys finishing necks at different times.
I do have a vague memory that there weren't actually that many guys who did neck finishing, though.
Like maybe 3 or 4 over the history of Westerly?
Point being it's not like there was constant change of personnel at the belt sander.
 

Bonneville88

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Adorshki, appreciate the info & observations... seems as if fretboard width variation is
just going to be in the mix... something to keep in mind going forward.

Out of the growing collection of Guilds I have at this point...
the D17 is the only instrument thus far with what feels like noticeably less space for fingers...
still very much enjoying playing it though :joyous:
 

txbumper57

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I'll second what Al added in the previous post about the necks being hand finished. I have owned a few Westerly acoustics and electrics that were spec'd for 1 11/16 nut widths but in actuality varied from 1 5/8" all the way to 1 3/4" and everywhere in between. There is no guarantee that 2 Westerly made Guild guitars of the same model, year of production, or even the same batch are going to have the same nut width due to the Human element of shaping the individual necks themselves. The only way to verify what the nut width would be is to have the seller put a set of calipers on it to find out what that particular guitar's nut width actually is. If the nut width is going to be a issue for you I would have the seller measure it before you buy it. That way you are not out return shipping costs if it is too narrow or too wide. Worse case scenario is the seller does not accept returns and you are stuck with a guitar that is uncomfortable for you to play.

Also if you can't inspect the guitar in person you need to examine the photos to determine if the neck angle is still good and it is not in need of an expensive Neck reset. Does the guitar have a low saddle? Does the string height at the 12th fret appear to be high? What size strings are on the guitar in the photos (Lights, Mediums, Extra Lights) and are they tuned to standard tuning? Can the seller verify that the truss rod in is working condition?

To determine if the neck angle is good you can ask the seller to lay a straight edge on the frets and extend that straight edge to the wood bridge on the guitar. If the neck angle is good on the guitar the bottom edge of the straight edge while on the frets should be even with the top of the wood bridge. If the neck angle is bad or starting to go bad the bottom edge of the straight edge will be lower than the top of the wood bridge while on the frets.

If the guitar has light gauge strings on it and is tuned to standard tuning and the action at the 12th fret appears to be high you can count on it being even higher with a set of mediums on it. As far as the truss rod I would prefer if the seller took it to a luthier to determine if it is functioning properly as someone with no knowledge of truss rods could really mess up the neck.

If the guitar has a low saddle and high action at the 12th fret it may be another indicator of a neck reset in the near future. Remember how ever far the strings need to come down at the 12th fret to be playable that you are going to have to take roughly twice that height off of the saddle due to the geometry to achieve your target 12th fret string height. For instance, If you only have 3/32" of saddle height showing and the strings need to come down 2/32" to achieve proper string height, You will have to take roughly 4/32" off of the saddle height itself. Your saddle is only 3/32" high so the saddle after being shaved the proper amount will allow the strings bottom out on the wood of the bridge before reaching your target height which renders the guitar unplayable without a neck reset.

A bad Neck angle would constitute a Neck reset which is very expensive and probably costs more than the D15M itself. Going rate is $500 and up depending on if the frets need replaced. You can probably add on a new nut and saddle after a neck reset as well. Having to repair a truss rod consists of having to remove the fretboard and once again you are talking about another high dollar repair. These are just a few suggestions for you when you are looking at the guitar photos to help you avoid buying someone else's problems. Best of luck to you and I hope it all works out!


TX
 
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Bonneville88

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Thanks TX - mine probably needs a neck reset based your straight-edge test and high-ish action at
the 12th fret, although in cowboy-chord territory the action is fine.

mikbass, apologies if I hijacked your post. Good luck in your decision. I really like
my D17 despite its issues... here she is... that wide ivory colored binding
on a honey-brown all-hog body continues to keep me smitten :love-struck:

D17-front-left.JPG

D17-back-left.JPG
 

mikbass

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Thanks everyone. The Guitar arrived wednesday and sadly was damaged in transport, so at the moment the seller is battling the transport company for compensation and I'm trying to get him to take it back...
 

sixx

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Aargh...sorry to hear that! Disappointing. Hope the situation resolves itself soon and amicably. And the NEXT guitar is most definitely the one you should have had all along.
 

Bonneville88

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mikbass, sorry to hear of it... what a bummer!
What part of the guitar was damaged?
 

D30Man

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Ouch that sucks major mikbass!!!! Damaged beyond repair / playability? No chance for a partial refund based on cost to fix?
 

mikbass

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Thanks for your support and sympathy. The side was cracked at the lower side, at the strapbutton/input, and there was a crack separating the side and bottom part. Sadly the seller is still trying to escape refunding even though he has gotten som compensation from the transport company. For me the guitar was "dead". I was sold a 9/10 but got a 5/10 and it just went cold...
Even though I´ve been smitten with extreme luck, guitarwise (how about a 1964 Hofner club bass for 45€?) this made me sad and I think it will be the last time that I buy an acoustic that has to be shipped. Hands-on trying will be the way.
The story continues. Hopefully it will resolve in the best way possible. I'll let you know.
 

Bonneville88

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Thanks for the update... sounds like it took quite a hit...
it ain't over 'til it's over... hang in there.
The Hofner bass sounds like an amazing score, just googled images
and prices... hadn't seen one before, very cool.
 

mikbass

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Everything went right. Seller and I agreed and the money was refunded in full.
(and went straight into a Starfire Bass, NS series... )

Thanks to everyone who listened in...
 
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