Nick Drake and the M20.

Quantum Strummer

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i got to tell ya, i cannot stand the strings and orchestration of the first two albums. like all that noise drowning out the guitar and song, it must have been the times.

Look for Nick Drake's Peel Session recordings on YouTube. Just a few songs, but River Man in particular is gorgeous. Just Nick's voice and guitar.

-Dave-
 

txbumper57

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I just hope one day I find a M20 that sounds as good as the one Nick Drake played. It would be even a greater plus if I could find a Pre-Fender model that was built in the New Waverly facility around 1998. If I can't find one of those I would like to find an American made 2008/2009 Guild SR71 Blackbird P90x or Starburst III-90 made in the Guild Custom Shop in Corona California for the 2013 NAMM Show. Those are great guitars as well though surprisingly hard to find in the used market.

TX
 

Westerly Wood

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Look for Nick Drake's Peel Session recordings on YouTube. Just a few songs, but River Man in particular is gorgeous. Just Nick's voice and guitar.

-Dave-

wow. there are tons of songs of his. listening to river man now. are these outtakes? they should put out an album...
still, though not someone who listens to his stuff often, my fave Drake song is Things Behind the Sun. I love how it ends...
https://youtu.be/6btXe5j17oE
 
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adorshki

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wow. there are tons of songs of his. listening to river man now. are these outtakes? they should put out an album...
still, though not someone who listens to his stuff often, my fave Drake song is Things Behind the Sun. I love how it ends...
Careful.
Next thing you know yer gonna be overcome by an inexplicable urge to buy a Volkswagen.
 

jmascis

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I used to really like Nick Drake as a youth, but over time I got sick of the mopey nature of the tunes. And the chords never seemed to really go anywhere. Very droney without a lot of tension or pull in the chord changes. I still think he's good and worth listening to, but I personally stopped listening to him.
 

txbumper57

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You may have seen this one before.....

https://youtu.be/4yEqeEc8lwo

Tommy

Oh My Word, That is worse than a Misinformation campaign that the Government would put out! LOL! "They started making them in 1967, I had to stop my camera man and pull up Nick Drakes album so he could see that Guild made it sound just like Nick's M20." That guy needs to do a little bit of research before he opens his mouth, LOL! What a Tool. What made me laugh so hard was that you can tell he actually believes every thing he is spewing out. It's almost like he is gushing about it. I'd love a picture of his face when someone tells him that his entire history part of his review on the M20 is B.S.

TX
 

adorshki

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I just hope one day I find a M20 that sounds as good as the one Nick Drake played. It would be even a greater plus if I could find a Pre-Fender model that was built in the New Waverly facility around 1998. If I can't find one of those I would like to find an American made 2008/2009 Guild SR71 Blackbird P90x or Starburst III-90 made in the Guild Custom Shop in Corona California for the 2013 NAMM Show. Those are great guitars as well though surprisingly hard to find in the used market.

TX

The M20 (along with those other rarae aves) was snatched up by a savvy Japanese futures broker a couple of years back and was recently on offer at a music store in Japan at US$11,133.00 plus shipping and CITES documentation costs.
Or the whole lot could be had for US $151,444.00 US plus shipping.
He also has Richie Havens' Woodstock D40 (signed "Wow, the colors!! Love, Richie") on display but not for sale due to condition, there's a hole by the pickguard.
 
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Quantum Strummer

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wow. there are tons of songs of his. listening to river man now. are these outtakes? they should put out an album...
still, though not someone who listens to his stuff often, my fave Drake song is Things Behind the Sun. I love how it ends...
https://youtu.be/6btXe5j17oE

The Peel Sessions stuff was recorded for broadcast by the BBC. John Peel was a long-time DJ, originally on the Radio London pirate station, and a champion of lotsa good music. I don't think the original tapes still exist, so there may be some issue about who has the rights to officially release the recordings.

Things Behind The Sun is one of my Drake favs too.

-Dave-
 

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Quick question about the M-20. From the specs I've found, the old, vintage ones from Hoboken have a 41.3mm nut, and the new ones have a 44mm nut. Does anyone know why? The 41.3mm nut seems narrow for finger picking, yet that's what the guitar seems most associated with.

Am I misinformed?
 
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AcornHouse

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Quick question about the M-20. From the specs I've found, the old, vintage ones from Hoboken have a 41.3mm nut, and the new ones have a 44mm nut. Does anyone know why? The 41.3mm nut seems narrow for finger picking, yet that's what the guitar seems most associated with.

Am I misinformed?
Most of the Hoboken guitars have narrow nuts. They played what they were.
 

jmascis

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Cool, thanks. I realized all my guitars (electrics mostly) are 1 11/16 nuts. The M-20 (2017 model) I bought had a 1 3/4 nut. It felt so much wider in my hand and the string spacing felt much wider. It's only a 1/16th difference, which seems like nothing, but it was noticeable and was causing my hand to cramp. Certain chords (e.g. E9 in first position) were much harder to fret. It's just weird that 1/16th could do that.

When I looked up the vintage specs I saw this model used to be narrower. It was interesting and just wondering why.
 

adorshki

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Cool, thanks. I realized all my guitars (electrics mostly) are 1 11/16 nuts. The M-20 (2017 model) I bought had a 1 3/4 nut. It felt so much wider in my hand and the string spacing felt much wider. It's only a 1/16th difference, which seems like nothing, but it was noticeable and was causing my hand to cramp. Certain chords (e.g. E9 in first position) were much harder to fret. It's just weird that 1/16th could do that.
String spacing at bridge also affects that "feel", because of the "fanning" effect.
I generally have a hard time with 1-3/4" nuts too, but I played a Larrivee once that felt pretty good due to narrower spacing at bridge.
There was a late Westerly M20 re-issue and I'm pretty sure it had the 1-11/16" nut (most Westerlys do) but it was also a 24-3/4" scale, can't recall if that was important to you or not.
 

Quantum Strummer

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Looking straight at the fretboard my F-20's neck looks like it belongs on an electric guitar. But in the hand it's got more girth than a typical early '60s electric neck (though not as much as my old Tele's).

-Dave-
 

jmascis

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String spacing at bridge also affects that "feel", because of the "fanning" effect.
I generally have a hard time with 1-3/4" nuts too, but I played a Larrivee once that felt pretty good due to narrower spacing at bridge.
There was a late Westerly M20 re-issue and I'm pretty sure it had the 1-11/16" nut (most Westerlys do) but it was also a 24-3/4" scale, can't recall if that was important to you or not.

I never heard the term fanning effect, but based on the 1 3/4 I played I think I know what you mean. Basically the string spacing gets wider as it moves toward the bridge? That's how it seemed and felt.

Scale length isn't important to me. I play a Jazz bass and Ukulele in addition to guitar, and own electric guitars of various scales. I also have all different fret types from vintage to tall and none bother me. But for some reason the one thing I couldn't quite get used to was the wider nut. And it's such a small amount. Maybe in time I would have, but I felt cramping that I never had before.
 
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adorshki

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I never heard the term fanning effect, but based on the 1 3/4 I played I think I know what you mean. Basically the string spacing gets wider as it moves toward the nut? That's how it seemed and felt.
No it means it gets wider as it moves toward the bridge.
It's possible to get a nut cut with narrower spacing but if the spacing is too wide at the bridge it may not achieve much.
Besides which, it's yet another expense on a guitar you're becoming disenchanted with.
Scale length isn't important to me. I play a Jazz bass and Ukulele in addition to guitar, and own electric guitars of various scales. I also have all different fret types from vintage to tall and none bother me. But for some reason the one thing I couldn't quite get used to was the wider nut. And it's such a small amount. Maybe in time I would have, but I felt cramping that I never had before.
This might be one of those situations where better ergonomics help. It's one of the reasons I advocate classical seating and fretting techniques as in my avatar.
Do you tend to hook your thumb over the fretboard?
I realize the habit might be hard to break but it's a primary source of cramping tension between thumb and forefinger.
 

jmascis

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This might be one of those situations where better ergonomics help. It's one of the reasons I advocate classical seating and fretting techniques as in my avatar.
Do you tend to hook your thumb over the fretboard?
I realize the habit might be hard to break but it's a primary source of cramping tension between thumb and forefinger.

Good points.

My seating is bad. I sit on the couch and watch a movie as I practice. I try to keep it on my left leg at least.

With fretting technique, I do a mix of the two, and it depends on the chord. I'll only hook my thumb to mute (e.g. C chord in first position, I don't want low E to ring, so I go into a more "blues" position and hook the thumb to mute it). For aggressive music it's the only way because you can't be as precise with aggressive strumming as with classical finger picking. Or, at least I haven't found a way to stay on the finger tips exclusively and mute unwanted strings with aggressive techniques.
 
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