2017 Martin D28 Swiss over Cocobolo Custom Shop vs 2014 Guild F50R

krugjr

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While waiting for my Martin Custom Shop build to arrive ( 7 1/2 months ) the F50 R I had sold last year (and really missed) found it's way back into my life.....they've both been trying to earn the right to be my "ultimate rhythm guitar for life" and it's been a month now......one has to go, decision has been made.....guess which one I just put up for sale?
 

SFIV1967

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2017 Martin D28 Swiss over Cocobolo Custom Shop for sale ? :eek:nthego:

Ralf
 
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txbumper57

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Hey Krug, PM me a link for the Martin, I might be interested in it.

TX
 

jmascis

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Is Cocobolo as bright as they say?

I've been having a hard time finding good audio samples of it or even a guitar in my local shop made of it.
 

SFIV1967

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Is Cocobolo as bright as they say? I've been having a hard time finding good audio samples.
Enter "Martin Cocobolo" on YouTube, many examples there.

Taylor gives this description:
"Cocobolo is a dense, stiff tropical hardwood with a fairly bright tone. Sonically, it's similar to koa, but resonates a little deeper on the low end, although it doesn't have quite the full low end of rosewood or ovangkol. Fast and responsive, with moderate note decay, it's articulate with lots of note distinction. We like it on a GS because it really pairs well with what the body shape is doing, blending the low end and midrange of the body with the wood's brightness. We also like it for fingerstyle on a GC. Goes Well With: A wide range of playing styles (depending on the body shape). Also, with players who want a brighter rosewood sound with a little less low end and a little more treble zing."


I once tested the Guild GSR D-50 Cocobolo in a store, I liked it way better than the normal D-55 they had to compare. I only didn't buy it at that time as I didn't like the look of the unfortunatelly mismatched cocololo wood on that specific one guitar. I guess I regret it now...
Ralf
 

PTC Bernie

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Let me start by saying I'm not a Martin fan.

Having done some woodworking, I can tell you that Cocobolo is a very heavy wood. I would think that Guitar would be pretty heavy by comparison to others.

Also admit that I've been a guild fan for decades.

The guild would definitely get my vote.
 
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txbumper57

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Is Cocobolo as bright as they say?

I've been having a hard time finding good audio samples of it or even a guitar in my local shop made of it.

Granted this soundclip was recorded before I got my good mics but it will give you an idea of what the Guild GSR D50 Cocobolo sounds like. Not as bright as some might think, Personally to me it has a Smokey Haunting tone to it. Out of all my Guilds and all of the tone woods I have including Brazilian RW, My GSR D50 Cocobolo is one of my Favorites as it is completely unique unto itself. Cocobolo is my Favorite tonewood out of all of them.

2011 Guild GSR D50 Engleman Spruce Top/ Cocobolo Back and Sides.

https://soundcloud.com/txbumper57/20...d50-sound-clip

TX
 

richardp69

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I'm with you Tx. I have a Guild F 40 GSR with Cocobolo back and sides. I don't find it to be overly bright, not even close. If I had to categorize it I might say that to me the sound is somewhere between a Koa and a Rosewood. I haven't seen many Cocobolo guitars for sale be it on the various forums, Craig's List, Ebay or Reverb.
 

krugjr

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Which of the two did I put up for sale?

Ralf and TX got it right away..... my Martin custom order is up for sale.....not because it's less guitar than the F50R, but for financial reasons, etc, as I head into retirement with only two guitars to keep, I think I'd like to have one Rosewood and one Mahogany.....and for twice the money, I don't really see how the D28 gives me twice what I get from my F50R.....when I sold the F50R (and then missed it) I designed the Martin custom build to try to give me the tone I remembered from the F50R, and I do like the Martin dreads, so I figured this could be a killer combination.....and it turned out real fine...but if I only want one rosewood, for my budget (and since I got my original F50R back while waiting for my custom build) I just can't see replacing the F50R with the Custom.....if I had the money and my wife didn't have health issues I would not let this Martin out of my hands...it's that nice...I picked everything on that order to fit my playing style, and I believe I nailed it...it's a strummer's, flat picker's dream.....sometimes you just gotta let 'em go.....

jmascis.....hard to judge the "brightness" of this cocobolo because of the way I had it built.....I chose the rear shifted X bracing which diminishes the mid range scoop of rosewood...that, in itself, reduces the highs you hear because of the over all more even balance string to string, while maintaining the beautiful lows of a Martin dread.....then I had the Adi braces scalloped like the Golden Era Martins to keep the lows strong...then I went with European Swiss Spruce top instead of Adi...for an instant warmth to the tone, and sparkling highs, without waiting months or years to break it in.....(remember, they say the top is a good 75% of the tone of a guitar.....the coco B&S add volume, sustain, and note clarity/separation to the formula.....cocobolo is just another rosewood, more or less.....you pick up a good mahogany build and there is usually a defined mid range presence to it.....pick up a rosewood, and you usually have the classic lows and highs up front and the mids backed off.....that's what I do like about the way this custom order turned out...it's a rosewood dread that has the tone of mahogany and rosewood.....if I was to keep only one guitar, not the two I've described, it would be the custom, cuz it's a little bit of both.....but with two guitars, I can let the RW be all RW, and the Hog be all Hog! hope my rambling makes some sense to you.....

PTC Bernie.....not sure I understood your "vote"

richardp69.....go to Reverb, search "martin custom shop D28 cocobolo".....mine pops up and is the only one.....add the rear shifted and the swiss top and it's pretty rare....

thanks to all for the feedback so far.....
 
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chazmo

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IMO, those are pretty different beasties to be comparing, krugjr. I'm just wondering what you were looking for in your Martin? Just a different sound, I guess? That's great that you got back the "one you let get away." :)

In the dread family, I have to say I really loved my Martin HD-28. The comparison in my mind was always between that and a Guild D-50 or D-55. I would've guessed that your Martin, with scalloped braces shifted to the rear, would sound somewhat like the HD-28, but perhaps not.

Cocobolo is an exquisitely beautiful wood, I have to say. But I've never played a guitar made from it.

Best of luck.
 

D30Man

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I too have never played cocobolo.. I know that it makes for a lovely desk..
 

krugjr

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Chazmo.....my first Martin (last year) was the HD28 Retro....it has forward shifted bracing...I really liked the guitar a lot, but in the end I decided the Aura system was just too much, tech-wise and weight-wise.....so I sold it..... later, I played all three X patterns at a couple of Martin road shows, and kept coming back to the rear shifted for my style, so decided to go the custom order route and it is pretty close to the tone I was trying for.....so it really comes down to whether I want to ride off into the song writing / guitar playing sunset with two "similar" guitars (that fit my style the best), or choose to keep my Froggy SJ Mahogany and sell one of the rosewoods (F50R or the Custom D28).....the Froggy, my first, is totally diff in tone, but it makes me want to play it, try diff techniques, and have that "second choice" of a guitar as one of my final two.....hope that makes sense.....I could gone on about the FB, but those who have played or owned them know what mean...you pick one up, and they're hard to put down......so the real guitar choice for me is not the F50R vs the Custom Martin, but the Froggy vs the Custom.....
 

chazmo

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Ah, well said. Didn't realize you'd had experience with the D-28 series. The forward-shifted, scalloped brace models are hte ones that speak to me best; the standard D-28... not so much.

Well, best of luck in your choices! Sorry you can't keep them all.
 

adorshki

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Is Cocobolo as bright as they say?

I've been having a hard time finding good audio samples of it or even a guitar in my local shop made of it.

It's a true rosewood (genus dalbergia).
Hard to work with though, compared to EIR, for example.
Also got CITES listed on Appendix III in '08 which seems to be about the time we started seeing it less frequently offered.
All the rosewoods got upgraded to Appendix II beginning in January iof this year, not as restrictive as the Appendix I status of Braz but still puts a little speed bump in the trade.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocobolo
 
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txbumper57

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One of my favorite aspects of Cocobolo on my Guild GSR D50 is the Percussive quality to the tone of it. I don't know if it is the same on Krug's Martin but my GSR D50 is quite a thumper if you want it to be. My personal comparison is that Cocobolo sounds about as close as you can get to Brazilian RW without it being Brazilian Rosewood. It is very dense and hard to work with due to the oil that comes from the wood. The oil can be a strong irritant to the eyes and skin so you have to wear proper protection when working with it. The oil also doesn't mix well with most glues used to construct an acoustic guitar so you have to be extra careful to make sure everything is super clean when gluing joints and such. Mine has sat out of the case for long periods of time here at the house over the 2-1/2 years I have owned it and it still has a pretty strong Floral aroma inside the soundhole.

If I had the cash right now I would seriously be considering Krug's Martin just for the woods alone and I am not that much of a Martin Fan. I think I read about a year ago that Taylor was going to stop using Cocobolo due to the lack of availability and the issues that comes with working it. If you ever get the chance to play a Guitar made out of Cocobolo I highly recommend it, They sound flat out Glorious!

TX
 

krugjr

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TX.....the more I kept talking about the coco custom the more I realized I designed a pretty great guitar, so much so that I just sold the Froggy (took all of 5 min).....I kept playing the two of them and you're absolutely right about the percussive qualities of coco....you know my style, and the more I played the two back to back, the custom just showed me why I ordered it in the first place...it really fits my style.....yeah, the FB was unique, but so was my Orph 14 fret slope hog, a beautiful "3rd" guitar, but not one of my top two! plus the custom is just "waking up" and, of course, I will have warr for life if it stays with me, that's a side benefit also.....
 

txbumper57

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I was really scratching my head as to why you would sell the Custom Cocobolo instead of the Hog Froggy but I didn't want to step on any toes. Yes Froggy Bottom guitars are Awesome and they have the price tag to go with it but it is still a Small Jumbo Hog guitar at the end of the day. Right now I think Cocobolo Guitars are as rare if not more than Brazilian RW is at this point in time due to builders not wanting to have to do all the extra stuff they have to when working with Cocobolo and also the scarcity of quality Cocobolo there is to work with. The Cocobolo guitars I am seeing on the market today all have a good amount of Heart wood or "Sap Wood" as it is referred to on the back and sides which in my opinion looks pretty but doesn't resonate as well as a fully grained back and sides set does. Very rarely do you see the fully grained grade of Cocobolo that you have on that custom and I have on my GSR D50 in the market anymore. I imagine in a few years you won't see any of it in the market at all. The other thing I was thinking is that there is enough difference in the tone of your F50R Jumbo EIR and the Cocobolo custom Martin Dread that they aren't in the same tonal category to me as 2 EIR guitars would be. In my mind if I had to have 2, those are the perfect pair to compliment and contrast each others tone. Once you get some more play time in on that Custom I think she will open up nicely. Besides, When are you ever going to find another guitar that has all the specs on it that you want without ordering another custom build? Congrats on keeping it my friend and I look forward to the updates in tone the more she gets played. I think you made the right choice.

TX
 

tommym

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....as I head into retirement with only two guitars to keep....

I've got about 10 more years to retirement, but the wife and I have decided to downsize now in order to build up our savings before retirement. I'm giving up a decently sized single family house (at the edge of a golf course) with 3 bedroom / 3 full bathrooms / Garage / Yard / etc., and shoehorning into a really small two bedroom townhouse with no garage or yard. Culture Shock to say the least. Lots of stuff has to go including most of my guitar collection, vintage car stuff, tools (all the good stuff), etc.. So I'll be lucky to shoehorn two guitars into the small townhouse, and might end up with just one. But it's all good, as this was a mutual decision between me and my wife. I tried to get her to move to a more affordable state / city where we could afford a more comfortable townhouse than what we now have, but that was a no-go from the get-go, as she would have to cut her ties with her large family.

Tommy
 
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