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Thread: 2017 Martin D28 Swiss over Cocobolo Custom Shop vs 2014 Guild F50R

  1. #21
    thanks, TX.....I do feel really good about today's decision.....it took all day (and my fingers are sore) but the answers all came at just the right time.....and nobody clicked "Buy Now" on the custom on Reverb!!! that's how I lost the F50R back then...thought I would just test the market at a high price and just like that, it was gone!

    tommym.....I hear ya, man.....down sizing is what we're all about right now with this "life change"...easy for my wife, reeeeeeeallly difficult for me.....23 yrs together, she knows, and respects, what music means to me.....and she understands it wasn't easy to let that Froggy go, but family comes first.....we make our decisions together too...makes for a good marriage.....

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by txbumper57 View Post
    Granted this soundclip was recorded before I got my good mics but it will give you an idea of what the Guild GSR D50 Cocobolo sounds like. Not as bright as some might think, Personally to me it has a Smokey Haunting tone to it. Out of all my Guilds and all of the tone woods I have including Brazilian RW, My GSR D50 Cocobolo is one of my Favorites as it is completely unique unto itself. Cocobolo is my Favorite tonewood out of all of them.

    2011 Guild GSR D50 Engleman Spruce Top/ Cocobolo Back and Sides.

    https://soundcloud.com/txbumper57/20...d50-sound-clip

    TX

    Nice, thanks for the test clip. It sounds woody (but with heft/weight to it) to me more than bright.

  3. #23
    Senior Member davismanLV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adorshki View Post
    Hard to work with though, compared to EIR,
    Al, that would be difficult to deal with in a litigious sense or for import/export issues but I'm sure it works (woodworking) very similar to rosewood or most of the hardwoods. They all have their individual qualities, but i'm sure you meant for MARKETING and SALES.... not for working the wood. Taylor has some really SERIOUS Cocobolo Woods they use that I truly LOVE!!

    Tom in Vegas

    Use the good china. Life itself is the special occasion.

    Guild D65s, 1994
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  4. #24
    Super Moderator chazmo's Avatar
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    krug,

    Best of luck with your choices! That's great that you got good money for your Froggy Bottom. I thought the guitar market was pretty soft these days, but I know nothing about that brand. Your custom Martin sounds like a winner anyway.

    All I know is that something tells me you might not be "done" with this selection process. :) :)
    Quote Originally Posted by Neal
    I am going to hang onto this little F-20 and play it as a reminder that life is sometimes rough, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the damage you accrue along the way defines who you are.
    Quote Originally Posted by marcellis
    Growing old is a bitch.
    Guild 12-strings:
    1978 G-312NT (Westerly) - "Franzz",
    1994 JF-30-12Bld (Westerly),
    2006 F-512 (Tacoma),
    2010 F-212XL STD (New Hartford) - "Connie"
    2014 Orpheum 12 OOO SHRW (New Hartford)

    Non-Guild 12s:
    1970 Martin D-12-20
    1980 Ibanez AW-75 (Series I)
    1984 Taylor 655

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by krugjr View Post
    ....that's how I lost the F50R back then...thought I would just test the market at a high price and just like that, it was gone!
    My NH F50R is my ultimate 6-string. I'm glad I don't have such difficult choices about who goes and who stays. (That one will never be going.) I've just got to unload quite a few lower price but nice Epiphones. I just got a check in the mail for the flamed trans black Performer ME, which I've got to get packed up and shipped off. Plenty of bling on that one!

    2011 Guild F50R Sunburst
    2002 Guild JF30-12 Sunburst
    2008 Epiphone Masterbilt EF-500RAVS

    1939 Epiphone Masterbilt Zenith

    2014 Epi FT-79 IB-64 Texan
    
2012 Epi Lennon EJ-160E VS

    2011 Epi Performer ME TBK

    2013 Epi EL-00 Pro VS
    
1972 Epi FT-160 12-string
    2012 Epi Dot CH

    2010 Epi Les Paul Standard trans amber 

    2013 Yamaha Motif XS7

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by davismanLV View Post
    Al, that would be difficult to deal with in a litigious sense or for import/export issues but I'm sure it works (woodworking) very similar to rosewood or most of the hardwoods. They all have their individual qualities, but i'm sure you meant for MARKETING and SALES.... not for working the wood. Taylor has some really SERIOUS Cocobolo Woods they use that I truly LOVE!!

    Actually he literally means hard to work and shape into a guitar as well as hard to get Davisman. Here is an excerpt from my earlier post in this thread about Cocobolo and some of it's wonderful properties.

    One of my favorite aspects of Cocobolo on my Guild GSR D50 is the Percussive quality to the tone of it. I don't know if it is the same on Krug's Martin but my GSR D50 is quite a thumper if you want it to be. My personal comparison is that Cocobolo sounds about as close as you can get to Brazilian RW without it being Brazilian Rosewood. It is very dense and hard to work with due to the oil that comes from the wood. The oil can be a strong irritant to the eyes and skin so you have to wear proper protection when working with it. The oil also doesn't mix well with most glues used to construct an acoustic guitar so you have to be extra careful to make sure everything is super clean when gluing joints and such. Mine has sat out of the case for long periods of time here at the house over the 2-1/2 years I have owned it and it still has a pretty strong Floral aroma inside the soundhole.

    I have a friend who use to make custom Pool Cues out of Cocobolo using it for the main wood in the stick. Whenever he would turn it on a lathe if you weren't wearing a respirator or goggles you would have thought someone sprayed a shot of Floral air freshener with the qualities of pepper spray in the shop.

    TX
    Last edited by txbumper57; 08-15-2017 at 01:59 PM.
    Guilds
    Hoboken-1960 X175, 1961 SF-II
    Westerly-1971 F612, 1976 G41, 2000 SF-V, 1984 S284, 1993 JF100-NT-CRV
    Nashville C.S. SFIV-3 P90 w/Trem
    Corona-2003 Fleming F47-Brz RW, 2003 D55 50th Ann. Brz RW#10 of 50, 2003 X160 R.B., 2003 SF-III-90
    Conn-2010 D55 Burst, 2011 GSR D50 Coco, 2013 R30S, 2013 Orph 12 Fret Slope, 2013 Orph Jumbo, 2014 Orph Burst 000-12 Fret 12 String S.H. RW, 2014 Orph 000 12 fret SH MH, 2012 F50-DTAR, 2013 F50R-DTAR, 2014 F512-DTAR, 2014 D55-RS

    Amps
    70 T-bird 2x12
    93 Sequoia

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by krugjr View Post
    TX.....the more I kept talking about the coco custom the more I realized I designed a pretty great guitar, so much so that I just sold the Froggy (took all of 5 min).....I kept playing the two of them and you're absolutely right about the percussive qualities of coco....
    I am very sorry to hear that you had to make tough guitar selling decisions because of health and financial constraints, and you mentioned that one of the reasons you wanted to sell the Martin was because it was your most expensive. But when I saw your build price and your asking price you would also have taken a huge loss of value on that sale, which kind of defies the purpose. I hope that with selling the FB (which may have been pre-owned and devalued when you got it) you took less of a financial hit as well.

  8. #28
    thanks for thinking of the family, merlin.....wife and I will get through all of this....God is good.....and yes, I bought the FB "right", that's why I took the chance while I was waiting for the Custom.....first time I ever got my money back on a guitar, the FBs are very popular, so few made.....

    Chazmo.....don't go there!!!!!....ha...ha.....

  9. #29
    Senior Member adorshki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davismanLV View Post
    Al, that would be difficult to deal with in a litigious sense or for import/export issues but I'm sure it works (woodworking) very similar to rosewood or most of the hardwoods.
    It IS a rosewood, D. retusa.
    That Wiki link I posted sums it up pretty well, but as TX said I DID mean it's very difficult to work because of the high oil content compared to EIR.
    Also it's so dense it literally sinks in water.
    That combo of hardness and oil is very hard on woodworking machines, the sawdust clogs abrasive and cutting surfaces very quickly, besides the irritant properties of the volatile oils that are the source of the floral scent.
    Also there's just not as much supply, but both EIR and Cocobolo are on CITES Appendix II so the import/export certification requirements are identical.
    Same treatment as Madagascan ebony since it was listed in '11.
    No big deal, you can still get it despite all the hue and cry about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by davismanLV View Post
    They all have their individual qualities, but i'm sure you meant for MARKETING and SALES.... not for working the wood. Taylor has some really SERIOUS Cocobolo Woods they use that I truly LOVE!!
    RE Marketing:
    I think it's been used to offer "something a little different" from the traditional tonewoods, but I think the makers quickly get reminded of the special requirements for working it, besides the higher cost based on scarcity.
    What's kind of interesting is that traditionally only the heartwood was used, but that Taylor shows a streak of sapwood, the creamy stripes.
    There may be differences in oil content making the sapwood easier to work, but it's pretty spectacular looking stuff either way.
    Quote Originally Posted by jmascis View Post
    Nice, thanks for the test clip. It sounds woody (but with heft/weight to it) to me more than bright.
    Fits in with another quote from that Wiki page:
    "It is used to make musical instruments, such as oboes, for its "warm, rich palette".
    An oboe, is after all, a woodwind instrument.

    Quote Originally Posted by krugjr View Post
    thanks for thinking of the family, merlin.....wife and I will get through all of this....God is good.....and yes, I bought the FB "right", that's why I took the chance while I was waiting for the Custom.....first time I ever got my money back on a guitar, the FBs are very popular, so few made.....
    I'm with TX, I think you made the right final decision too.
    After all even though they're scarce there are more than one, which can't be said of your Martin.
    Last edited by adorshki; 08-15-2017 at 04:49 PM.
    Al
    "Time May Change the Technique of Music But Never Its Mission " - Rachmaninoff
    My 1st Guild: '96 Westerly D25NT "Hally" (10-31-96 stamped on heelblock)
    #2: '01 Westerly F65ce "Blondie"
    #3: '03 Corona D40e Richie Havens "Richie"
    All bought new!

  10. #30
    thanks, Al.....you're right, I did think of that during the "process".....if I needed to find another FB like that one it wouldn't take too long......the Custom = one of a kind (or, at the very least, very rare).....

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