White Wood Builds

mavuser

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Now that's a surprise!
One would think it would work the other way 'round, but then it occurs to me this may be an example of a "favored nation" tariff break or exemption: Less import duty on a more finished product.
Thanks for additional info, I know there isn't always enough time to do that.

think about the cost of a brand new Newark Street SF with mahogany and (Indian) rosewood, vs. a USA New Hartford built Starfire with mahogany and (Indian) rosewood. some of it is the difference in labor cost but alot of it is the tarrif on the raw materials. with the imported guitar, both the labor cost and the tax are way down. thats why its 3-4x less expensive than the USA version. granted, the USA might be nicer, better quality, higher graded cuts of those woods...but we can't build the newark street version over here in the USA, for much less than the GSR New Hartford version, is my guess, just by the numbers.

and Frono, "poor" is definitely the correct vocabulary to describe me, currently.
 

txbumper57

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If you were a taxi driver and a big angry Amazon with a sword hailed you, would you pick her up?
No?
THAT's xenaphobic taxi evasion.

I would have three questions for her and the third would depend on the answer of the first two.

Question One: Can you see yourself wearing a pair of leather Chaps?

Question Two: Can you rebuild a S&S Super G carburetor for a 96 Cubic Inch V-Twin stroker motor with just a Phillips head screwdriver?

If the answer to questions one and two are both Yes,

Question Three: Wanna Get Hitched?

TX
 

fronobulax

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think about the cost of a brand new Newark Street SF with mahogany and (Indian) rosewood, vs. a USA New Hartford built Starfire with mahogany and (Indian) rosewood. some of it is the difference in labor cost but alot of it is the tarrif on the raw materials. with the imported guitar, both the labor cost and the tax are way down. thats why its 3-4x less expensive than the USA version. granted, the USA might be nicer, better quality, higher graded cuts of those woods...but we can't build the newark street version over here in the USA, for much less than the GSR New Hartford version, is my guess, just by the numbers.

and Frono, "poor" is definitely the correct vocabulary to describe me, currently.

Sorry about the economic situation. I may have an empty chicken coop if you need it :)

Tariffs are not an area I know much about. A superficial investigation starting here suggests that the tariff on imported guitars from Korea or China would be about 4.7%. If the declared value at import was $955 then the sale price, to recover that and the duty would be $1000. I need to dig up one of those Reverb articles on the cost breakdown of a guitar but I'm thinking the tariffs are probably not the biggest factor in explaining the cost difference between a domestic and an imported guitar. An economic reason for tarrifs is to raise the price on imported goods so that domestic goods are competitively priced in comparison in the domestic market. In this case I don't know if the low tarrif is a reflection of the cost difference or just another way for the government to raise revenue.
 

mavuser

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but again, its different for finished products vs. raw materials...that is actually the whole point of all of the manufacturing and factories that have moved overseas from the USA over time. If we are going to make it cheaper for the rich to build mass production overseas, we need to make those finished products cheap enough for the rich to sell them to Americans in the United States, once they are completed. It is the opposite for raw materials, which keeps the "USA version" much more expensive to build, and sell...continually giving the overseas operations the upper hand, and the resulting trend over time is a loss of manufacturing and factories in the USA, and the growth of those operations in other countries.

I believe (hope) we may start to see a rebirth of USA manufacturing, whether the materials are imported or not. At some point all bubbles burst...
 

dreadnut

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This is exactly what they did with my DeArmond Starfire Special. Made in Korea, final assembly in the US. But, it doesn't have the Guild logo in the headstock either.
 

adorshki

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This is exactly what they did with my DeArmond Starfire Special. Made in Korea, final assembly in the US. But, it doesn't have the Guild logo in the headstock either.
My early '80's Fender F210 acoustic said "Made in Korea set up in the USA" on the box.
I think they knew they had to disclose country of origin but wanted to make clear that Fender hands touched it here to make sure it was "right".
I had no problem with that for a first guitar for my younger brother. The one on display felt great, and was a no brainer at $299.00 (or was it even $199.00?) so I gave it the thumbs up. (He gifted it to me a few years later)
Re the "tariff" thing: I'm speculating but it wouldn't surprise me if different rates were applied to different countries as trade deals get negotiated.
A nation with "most favored nation" status probably sees very low tariffs/duties, but those deals can and do change over time.
 

Quantum Strummer

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I think over time we'll see larger-scale manufacturing level out in terms of where it happens, due mainly to further automation. Smaller-scale manufacturing, skilled makers doing their thing, is already strong in the US and other "developed" countries. More of this, rather than relying so much on the big boys, is IMO a healthier way to go. Healthier in the long term too for developing countries, some of which will soon enough graduate to developed status.

-Dave-
 

fronobulax

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Clearly there is much I don't understand about tarrifs but in the interest of keeping things away from international politics I'm not going to try and further my education.

In a previous post I linked to the Customs and Border Protection listing of tarrifs. While there were different tarrifs for different countries for musical instruments it did not appear that there was any kind of "favored nation" in trade going on. There definitely were "unfavored" nations.
 

dreadnut

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I'm thinking a wise speculator might stock up on vintage American-made Guilds. A few years ago would have even been better, but they're still a pretty good deal compared to other brands.
 

adorshki

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Clearly there is much I don't understand about tarrifs but in the interest of keeping things away from international politics I'm not going to try and further my education.
I'm not well versed myself but I was speaking in generalities that I was sure of.
I do know that different commodities are subject to differing import taxes, and the "favored nation" comment was for illustration of "how things work",

In a previous post I linked to the Customs and Border Protection listing of tarrifs. While there were different tarrifs for different countries for musical instruments it did not appear that there was any kind of "favored nation" in trade going on. There definitely were "unfavored" nations.
I missed that link but what you're describing still conforms to the principle of "most favored nation" treatment.
It's not so much singling out a single nation for all kinds of trade benefits as much as promising it won't be treated worse than any other nation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_favoured_nation
So what you're calling "unfavored" nations really are the ones that don't have benefit "most favored nation" status with a given partner.
And trying hard to avoid "politics", but on this morning's news show there was a story about the US and Canada's current round of trade negotiations.
Again, only brought up to illustrate "how things work" and why what was true 5 years ago may not necessarily be true now..new trade deals can mean new "rules" and different tariffs.
Could be a possible reason for offshore-made instruments to lose some cost advantage in future.
 

geoguy

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Well, if CMG/Guild builds the bodies off-shore & finishes them in the US they should certainly be transparent about the guitars' origins.

Maybe call 'em the "Tacoma Collection", so they aren't confused with the Asian-built "Westerly Collection". :cower:
 
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