Music Shop Incident.

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There are a few retailers around here that know me pretty well, but I still ask if I can try something out. Just common courtesy.
In one of the places, they have this great salesman who simply asks the lookers a few key questions..."what do you play now?, or, so you're in a band, where do you play? What kind of stuff do you play? How long have you been playing"...in a very low-key, conversational tone. He sums them up pretty well and gets an idea of what they might want and steers them in that direction. He's good...a very good SALESMAN. Not pushy, but he listens. Too many guys that work in stores AREN'T salesmen. They're called salesmen, but they really aren't.

And I like the fact that most stores around here have their higher-quality stuff in a special room or area.
 

dbirchett

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While I see both sides of the issue...you guys haven't tried walking into a guitar purveyor as a member of the female persuasion...you have no idea...:tongue-new:

Don't be so sure. I'll bet some of us have. :abnormal:
 

adorshki

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And/or they're asking, 'I wonder if I should lock my "better" instruments up and profile every potential customer?
That is in fact the optimum solution in a retail context.
I think what you're calling "profiling" is in fact known as "qualifying"; as Retro Rocker described.
And in fact it should be done because it serves to increase the probability of making a sale by insuring customers get to try guitars they can actually afford. Or will expand their budgets for, once they've had a chance to hear and feel the cost and quality options.
"Profiling" does have a negative connotation and I would put it in the same category as the "eyeballling" I mentioned earlier.
As Retro described the real art of selling IS in the qualifying.
It's not "selling the sizzle", it's asking the right questions.
I've made more money in my life from asking one single question than any other method:
"Why?"
 

davismanLV

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Then on the other hand, I was in GC one day in the "good" guitar room and a guy and his couple of friends came in. They were nice and well mannered. He grabbed a guitar and I was just about to tell him that the stool he was on wasn't stable (I was going out to find someone to let them know they were tempting fate) and he sat and placed the guitar on his lap and then the final screw in the stool flew out and the stool started self destructing below him. He held that guitar over his head and hit the ground HARD and I ran over and grabbed it from him. He was okay, a bit bruised and stunned and then the GC guy came in and started getting pissy and ..... I had myself a nice little conversation with him about them maintaining their furniture and equipment and that he was lucky it was THAT guy who saved the guitar.

Y'all know my trials and tribulations trying to buy my Breedlove. GC screwed me around and were a$$holes. Then I went to J&E Guitars and got the COLD & RUDE treatment that was beyond belief!! I thought, does no actual store here in Las Vegas want to sell me this guitar without screwing me over with non-refundable deposits that were HUGE and then be rude to me besides??

So then TX shot me a message about the one Open Box one on Musician's Friend. "It's fine. The case is fine. No damage. The box was a bit torn, that's all. Lower price and if after 45 days you don't want to keep it, send it back." Well, guess who got my business?

I understand about taking care of inventory but people have to play to know if they want to buy. Online retailers seem to know this. Why not brick and mortar stores?
 

kakerlak

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My dad once told me their band made a big amp purchase somewhere (Manny's-NYC?) back in the early '70s that was contingent upon them being allowed to come in afterhours and try their best to blow them up.
 

walrus

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There's a separate post about Carl Kamp at Union Music in Worcester, MA retiring - but there's a store that is always welcoming, and you can try whatever you want.

walrus
 
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Christopher Cozad

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..."Profiling" does have a negative connotation and I would put it in the same category as the "eyeballling"...
True, true. I am projecting. As I mentioned earlier, I am really impressed with those who have successfully run guitar stores over the years. Were I to open such an establishment, the player in me would want to kick the barn doors wide open, throw a party every day, and host 12hr concerts and practice sessions for the community musicians. That would probably last right up until nobody wanted to purchased any of my extensive inventory of scratched, dinged and otherwise abused instruments. At that point I would be tempted to close those barn doors, install barb wire, and begin profiling and eyeballing, I just feel it. :biggrin-new:

...I've made more money in my life from asking one single question than any other method:
"Why?"
I have asked (myself) that same question over and over again, but it never made me any money. LOL
 

adorshki

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I understand about taking care of inventory but people have to play to know if they want to buy.
Agreed but the point is to protect that high-value inventory from every yahoo who staggers in off the street and just wants to play the pretty $5000.00 guitar.
And really has absolutely no intention of buying anything and isn't even a serious player.
And part of true sales professionalism is to sort out that chaff courteously.
A skill which is notoriously rare in retail although I've been pleasantly surprised by an uptick in attitudes myself, recently.
Online retailers seem to know this. Why not brick and mortar stores?
Online retailers don't HAVE to worry about walk-ins and their "surprises".
Which works both ways because the ones who offer returns are still taking back what's at best a shop-worn (no matter how little that might be) instrument which might have gone out the door literally unplayed.
Another corollary issue is how much does shopwear devalue that $5000.00 guitar?
A lot of folks who are in that market expect a pristine instrument for that kind of money and expect price concessions for every little flaw...even after the 25% off MSRP on the "Big Sale!!" tag.
 

davismanLV

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I understand the argument, Al. But look who got the business. 3 stores in this city lost a $2000 sale. Musician's Friend got it because they understood I was interested (otherwise, I wouldn't have paid for it) and that if I didn't like it I could return it. I was willing to pay for the guitar if anyone would offer a return policy, which none of them did. We could go round and round on this and while I understand your point, there was no store here in town willing to work with me, even if I paid for the guitar. The company that DID work with me got my business.

They got to know me so well at the local Guitar Center, and then after I bought my Taylor there, guys would swoop through the acoustic room with, "Hey, how you doing, can I he...... oh, it's you. Enjoy your time. Let me know if you need anything." They had a great attitude until I wanted to buy something that wasn't in their normal stock. That's the key. It has to be a guitar they stock. Period.
 

Neal

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I have to share a music store experience I just had at the Sam Ash store in midtown Manhattan. Super nice staff in the acoustic room allowed me to play anything I wished, including a bunch of Gibsons (J-15, nice. J-45 standard, stick of firewood. J-45 custom rosewood, heavenly.)

Also played a Martin OOO-28EC (OK, but any Guild F-47R would have blown it away).

Played a nice Larrivee parlor.

Played a Guild Westerly Series D-240 (honestly, it was totally forgettable).

Star of the show was that very special rosewood Gibson J-45.

And a super nice, low pressure sales staff.
 

adorshki

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And a super nice, low pressure sales staff.

So I gotta ask, did they ask you enough exploratory questions in a nice way to be sure you were a "good risk", even if you disavowed any purchasing intent?
We knew a test drive was a given in the car biz, too, but at least we had to make sure they had a valid license..
 

Bill Ashton

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Sandy, was that the Sam Ash we went into? They were very very nice that number of years ago...I think Sandy should have a picture of me with a...shudder...Taylor! (I had to say it before he did!) Wicked selection of electrics.

RE Union Music, was there today. Not much new left, though a couple Taylor dreads if into that, and several GS-mini's in Koa which look really nice. But a TON of consignment guitars and amps, and those are all 20% off through Thursday. A sunburst DV-6, hung high enough so us weirdo's cannot play it and just drool...nice little (I guess) Waterloo OO in black...and Sandy...a Sunn 200S head!...and an Ampeg B15 with extra cab (with JBL!)

(Wait a minute...how can it be a 200S if there are only two power tubes?)
 

Bill Ashton

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And now it occurs to me...

When I auditioning...at Carl's suggestion...my first D55...Union had a boatload of Martins on a large floor-standing rack. I came in looking for a D50 they had advertised by missed it by a day, so Carl suggested the D55. I couldn't possibly afford that I told him, but he goes "try it out." So why futzing around, I tell him how my friend has a Martin D41, but I couldn't possibly afford one of those...he goes to the rack, picks one up and hands it to me. I truly did like the D55 better, so he hands it back to me and goes to place the Martin back on the rack. Of course, it slips out of the head-stock holder and down a row before he grabs it. I say,"Sure glad you did that and not me..."

Carl says, "So am I..."

I bought the D55 :smug: And so began a wonderful friendship. Damn, I am gonna miss that guy...
 
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adorshki

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FWIW, local independant dealer Guitar Showcase expanded their acoustic section by renovating the entire upstairs floor of their building and installing a glassed-in locked security room where they keep stuff like pre-war Martin dreads and such.
Showcase was the home of the "notorious" 50th Anniversary D55 that was listed for a few years at $8995.00, much to many members' disbelief.
At the time they kept it locked in a single glass case, and you did have to "pass the screening" to be able to play it.
I understand one of the sales guys was a bit surly, not even sure if he's there anymore, he must have been in his 50's back in the 00's, (I'm thinking it must have been that guy, who was a Martin snob, lol!) but the ones I've met were friendly enough.
Anyway, there're 2 points to the story:
1:The security room is actually climate controlled for humidity and temp, not just regulated with HVAC like the rest of the building.
2: The last time I was in there, eyeballing some of the pieces in the room, I was pretty quickly approached and offered access.
Now, I'm one of those guys who believes it's kind of selfish to put shopwear on high-end pieces I have no intention of buying especially if I suspect it's the only one the shop has. So I thanked the guy for his courtesy in acknowledging me quickly.
Now I wonder if he would have checked me out a little more thoroughly if I had wanted to look more closely at that '50's Gibson that was uniformly covered in finish checking.
Not that I'd have a problem with it.
And granted it was right after work so I still had suit and tie on, something I'm sure is pretty rare in there, LOL!
I did mention I was hoping to see some Oxnard Guild product on the regular display floor (I would have made an exception to my rule to check out an M20); but although they're still an authorized dealer (at the time, anyway), they're not stocking any product, even the MIC stuff, that I saw.
They could "order it", however.
Sigh.....
 
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mavuser

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I have to share a music store experience I just had at the Sam Ash store in midtown Manhattan. Super nice staff in the acoustic room allowed me to play anything I wished, including a bunch of Gibsons (J-15, nice. J-45 standard, stick of firewood. J-45 custom rosewood, heavenly.)

Also played a Martin OOO-28EC (OK, but any Guild F-47R would have blown it away).

Played a nice Larrivee parlor.

Played a Guild Westerly Series D-240 (honestly, it was totally forgettable).

Star of the show was that very special rosewood Gibson J-45.

And a super nice, low pressure sales staff.


I believe it Neal, like I posted already, all the stores in New York, Brooklyn, and Long Island seem to be super lax. My best guess is that generally speaking, overall, the ratio of people walking in these shops to actual sales is relatively high, compared to other parts of the country. there is a bit of reverse psychology going on there. I used to work in a high volume liquor outlet in Long Island. My first day they tell me "do not approach customers at all whatsoever. most of them know what they are looking for, and 99 percent of the people that walk in here, are going to purchase everything they came to get, without any assistance at all. if someone asks you for help, point them in the right direction, or get the bottle for them, only if they ask." and there are actually several reasons for this approach, but no doubt the biggest is to let the merchandise "sell itself," and in the world of guitars, at the end of the day it comes down to the same thing. The NY stores are good at that.

with regard to Sam Ash specifically, twice now the one in Huntington let me take a brand new guitar off the top row, and see if it fit in my pre-owned/vintage case, that I walked in with off the street. one was a $4,000 Gibson SJ-100! and the other was a Newark street Thunderbird (they both fit, i'm on a hot streak!). i told them from the first moment there was no way on this planet I was buying the Gibson (but the 60s jumbo Gibson case had fallen in my lap...) those guys are super cool. The T-bird there was some genuine interest in, and I am glad I played it, to see that for me specifically- it was all wrong. great sounding guitar though. Built like a train, almost felt like a bass guitar!
 

Neal

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I found out, to my dismay, that the Gibson J-45 Custom I played yesterday uses Richlite for the fretboard and bridge.

WTC?

I understand that rosewood and ebony are getting harder to come by, but this guitar was "discounted" at $2,750.

I would much rather play ebony that has striping in the grain than a plastic fretboard.
 

K.O.M.A.

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I found out, to my dismay, that the Gibson J-45 Custom I played yesterday uses Richlite for the fretboard and bridge.

WTC?

I understand that rosewood and ebony are getting harder to come by, but this guitar was "discounted" at $2,750.

I would much rather play ebony that has striping in the grain than a plastic fretboard.
Believe it or not some guys absolutely love Richlite, and only want guitars with Richlite boards
 

davismanLV

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I'm not for or against Richlite but as a product it's REALLY good for fretboards. And just so you know it's not really plastic. It's a laminated paper and resin product. Don's Martin OM kit has a Richlite fretboard and honestly you can hardly tell. I'm sure most people wouldn't even notice. However, NOT on a guitar of that price range..... nope! REALLY? Gibson puts Richlite on the J45 Custom? YIKES!! The insanity of Gibson's leader keeps showing up over and over.....
 

Rayk

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Someone might have mentioned this I did not read all the posts but Guitar Center here locked up the high end acoustics so you need to have a sales unlock them and bring them down . I guess it's a smart move but I never seen them abused though I guess things happen . But they always like the same guitars hanging there haha .
It doesnt bother me never liked them anyway :( the guitars that is .
 
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