Guitar Feels Stiff

jmascis

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Great! Play the guitar often!

Precisely, he also said some of the stiffness is that the guitar looks new/mint and needs playing to "break in"...totally agree. He said it takes like 2 years to really break one in. Had no idea it took that long. Anyway, this will help me play it more. Awesome all around.

Might have a gig Thanksgiving weekend so just in time to use the Guild.
 
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swiveltung

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Check the nut/string clearance. If the strings are too high down there it oftens feels harsh/stiff.
 

adorshki

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Precisely, he also said some of the stiffness is that the guitar looks new/mint and needs playing to "break in"...totally agree. He said it takes like 2 years to really break one in. Had no idea it took that long. Anyway, this will help me play it more. Awesome all around.
Might have a gig Thanksgiving weekend so just in time to use the Guild.
Based on my experience with my 2 dreads, I was of the opinion that it takes about a couple of hundred hours of playing time, for Guilds at least.
I think my F65ce getting near that now as well, (I kinda stopped tracking a couple of years back) and it's starting to gain some extra "oomph" too.
Anyway I think it's actual playing hours more than calendar time that opens 'em up, although the D40 really seemed to come into it's own after about ten years even though it'd hit the 200 hour mark a couple of years before that.
(I put most of my time on the D25 until it got its 2nd refret, then I started concentrating on the D40 and the F65ce)
 

jmascis

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Based on my experience with my 2 dreads, I was of the opinion that it takes about a couple of hundred hours of playing time, for Guilds at least.
I think my F65ce getting near that now as well, (I kinda stopped tracking a couple of years back) and it's starting to gain some extra "oomph" too.
Anyway I think it's actual playing hours more than calendar time that opens 'em up, although the D40 really seemed to come into it's own after about ten years even though it'd hit the 200 hour mark a couple of years before that.
(I put most of my time on the D25 until it got its 2nd refret, then I started concentrating on the D40 and the F65ce)

Nice, this one is almost 8 years old, but I don't think it has many hours on it. Now that I can play it without issue, I'll start logging them and break it in.
Nut looked cut perfect to me and the luthier didn't say anything was off with it, btw. It's quite low so maybe someone did a setup but just left the saddle a bit high.
 

jmascis

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Quick question: I actually went to adjust the truss rod today, and I notice it's really tight when trying to remove relief (wanted to straighten the neck perfectly). Would a lubricant help this? Or do they just max out at a certain point?
Since it wasn't budging much I just stopped.
 

jmascis

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jm, make sure you are turning in the right direction.

I turned it to the right/clockwise to remove relief.
There is a lot of resistance so I stopped. The neck only has a little relief in it, so it's not a big deal. I just wanted to get it straight since there is no buzz and I feel I can get it perfectly straight.
 

Kitarkus

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I turned it to the right/clockwise to remove relief.
There is a lot of resistance so I stopped. The neck only has a little relief in it, so it's not a big deal. I just wanted to get it straight since there is no buzz and I feel I can get it perfectly straight.

I'd been watching your thread with interest. I purchased both a 2012 NH D-40 which looks to have been seldom used and a 1974 F-30NT during the last 45 days. The F-30 has been getting the vast majority of my play time. I am considering returning the D-40 to Guitar Center prior to the end of my 45 day return period, however, I am hesitant to part with it.

The F-30 plays SO easily and fluidly....and requires little pressure for perfect chords & notes. The D-40 feels as you have described...stiff....and requires heavy pressure for clear notes/chords. The D-40 of course is strung with mediums/13's and I have the F-30 strung with 12's. The angle required to hold the dread vs. the F-30 is slightly different yadda yadda. It seems obvious to me that the d40 is a great albeit new guitar that still requires some breaking in while the F30 if just 'ready'. I am also finding that the smaller bodied guitars are just so much easier (for me) to play.

At this point in time it is hard for me to not A vs. B the D40 vs. the F30....and I know that this is hardly a fair comparison. These are very different guitars in many ways. That said, I lean heavily towards the comfortable and easy to play F-30....to the point where I am considering getting rid of the D40 in favor of another small body guitar.

The D40 is a great guitar...and at the $799 used retail that I had paid for it...understandably again I am finding it difficult to justify returning it to the store. My clock is ticking with 45 days coming in just over one week. What to do what to do. I know with certainty that this is the best hog dread that I could possibly find for $800. But a guitar that I don't play often is no bargain at any price.
 
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jmascis

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The D40 is a great guitar...and at the $799 used retail that I had paid for it...understandably again I am finding it difficult to justify returning it to the store. My clock is ticking with 45 days coming in just over one week. What to do what to do. I know with certainty that this is the best hog dread that I could possibly find for $800. But a guitar that I don't play often is no bargain at any price.

Yes, if you don't play it or like the feel, you should probably ditch it.

Mine feels a lot better now (is your action too high or anything else with the setup?), but it's still on the stiffer side. I attribute that to it needing some breaking in. It's practically new. If yours is newish, it might just need play. Maybe just play it a lot with the days you have left.

I haven't totally bonded with mine yet, but I see potential. Worst case I keep it as my strummer/dred. I've been trying to fingerpick and do more intricate stuff on it, and that's been difficult given the scale length, string spacing, thin neck profile, and the stiffer feel.

Good luck. Do you like the sound? If so, maybe keep it and work it in. To me it has a sweet, pure tone that's great.

P.s. I wonder why these feel stiff. If you find out let me know. I've noticed it on other guitars in shops, including Martins and such. Could be the wood? Or it needs a break in. I'm just not sure.
 
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jmascis

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Send your stiff guitar to me for a few days, I'll break the mofo in.

Haha. Are you in CA by any chance?

One more thing I've realized: I like thicker necks. The thinner neck on the D-40 causes my hand to cramp. I had the same issue on the DV-52 I purchased (It was a 2001, and it was a better guitar, IMO, but UPS broke it). It's weird because I have small hands. When there is space between the neck and my hand I get cramping after ~45 minutes of play.
 

Rayk

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I'd been watching your thread with interest. I purchased both a 2012 NH D-40 which looks to have been seldom used and a 1974 F-30NT during the last 45 days. The F-30 has been getting the vast majority of my play time. I am considering returning the D-40 to Guitar Center prior to the end of my 45 day return period, however, I am hesitant to part with it.

The F-30 plays SO easily and fluidly....and requires little pressure for perfect chords & notes. The D-40 feels as you have described...stiff....and requires heavy pressure for clear notes/chords. The D-40 of course is strung with mediums/13's and I have the F-30 strung with 12's. The angle required to hold the dread vs. the F-30 is slightly different yadda yadda. It seems obvious to me that the d40 is a great albeit new guitar that still requires some breaking in while the F30 if just 'ready'. I am also finding that the smaller bodied guitars are just so much easier (for me) to play.

At this point in time it is hard for me to not A vs. B the D40 vs. the F30....and I know that this is hardly a fair comparison. These are very different guitars in many ways. That said, I lean heavily towards the comfortable and easy to play F-30....to the point where I am considering getting rid of the D40 in favor of another small body guitar.

The D40 is a great guitar...and at the $799 used retail that I had paid for it...understandably again I am finding it difficult to justify returning it to the store. My clock is ticking with 45 days coming in just over one week. What to do what to do. I know with certainty that this is the best hog dread that I could possibly find for $800. But a guitar that I don't play often is no bargain at any price.

The D40 and F 30 are two different beasts
First thing is 13’s are some tough strings in standard tune and action is everything !

Scale lengh is a factor ,

As far as soloing like Joe satrainie forget it unless your the hulk !

Both guitars in standard tune with 13’s to me are a flat picking bluegrass gauge , bending strings etc will be hard .

If it’s hard to play chords or finger pick check the action height first if that’s right then change gauge.

In standard tune the heavier the better strumming / hard strumming .

From that you need adjust string gauge to fit finger picking and or a combo of both depending on your style !

Hard to play guitars either have a bad set up which will include sting gauge, nut height, saddle height,
Neck angle . Neck relief is subject to personal preference.

Other factors are fret conditions are they worn out and low carrying flat tops ? If so low action will lighten the clarity of the note to compensate the action is raised .

Just my take and no one else’s
 

jmascis

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The D40 and F 30 are two different beasts
First thing is 13’s are some tough strings in standard tune and action is everything !

Scale lengh is a factor ,

As far as soloing like Joe satrainie forget it unless your the hulk !

Both guitars in standard tune with 13’s to me are a flat picking bluegrass gauge , bending strings etc will be hard .

If it’s hard to play chords or finger pick check the action height first if that’s right then change gauge.

In standard tune the heavier the better strumming / hard strumming .

From that you need adjust string gauge to fit finger picking and or a combo of both depending on your style !

Hard to play guitars either have a bad set up which will include sting gauge, nut height, saddle height,
Neck angle . Neck relief is subject to personal preference.

Other factors are fret conditions are they worn out and low carrying flat tops ? If so low action will lighten the clarity of the note to compensate the action is raised .

Just my take and no one else’s

Thanks. I really appreciate that. I have .12s on mine.

As I mentioned, it does play better now. But it's still stiff compared to many other acoustics I've played. I had it checked out by an excellent luthier, and he said the setup was fantastic. So, it just is what it is. When I googled "guitar feels stiff" I found interesting posts where builders chimed in and mentioned it's the wood and doesn't change over time. That was interesting. I thought this was a break-in issue.
 

Rayk

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Thanks. I really appreciate that. I have .12s on mine.

As I mentioned, it does play better now. But it's still stiff compared to many other acoustics I've played. I had it checked out by an excellent luthier, and he said the setup was fantastic. So, it just is what it is. When I googled "guitar feels stiff" I found interesting posts where builders chimed in and mentioned it's the wood and doesn't change over time. That was interesting. I thought this was a break-in issue.
If the the guitar was originally spec’d for 12’s or whatever that to me just means it will perform best with the gauge but what the specs don’t say or cover is style ,. Photos along the neck to and from in a side shot and sling the string from nut to bridge would help determine a better answer .
Also Mr Taylor Martian Guild has another good point below !
Do you know if the radius of the saddle matches the radius of the neck.
If it doesn't the guitar could feel stiff.
I agree,

My cv-1 was hard to play it was set up and then I changed that set up by chamging the neck angle , I checked the saddles radius and it needed a slight adjustment but the action was high so I adjust the saddle height and it made a big difference in stiffness.

I lowered the High end strings and slightly lowering the low side just a tad .

I like to solo and now it’s much easier to do .
 

jmascis

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How does one measure the radius of the saddle? It's the stock saddle, so I would hope it does match. But the luthier did take some off during setup.
It plays better since he did that, but I didn't see him matching the radius.
 

kostask

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You meaure the string height at the bass strings and at the high strings. They should be within 1-2/64 of an inch, with the high strings being at a lower string height. Well equipped luthiers will have radius gauges that wiill allow them to verify the fretboard radius, and then cut a new saddle to the same radius.
 

jmascis

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You meaure the string height at the bass strings and at the high strings. They should be within 1-2/64 of an inch.

Thanks. Is that measurement taken at the saddles? I did that, and the bass is just a hair higher than the treble side.
The luthier took measurements there and said all looked well, but did take down the bass side just a hair (the action was 2.6mm, and he brought it down to 2.5mm). That made a difference.
The nut looks good. I can fret an F chord just fine, and tapping the string there is just a small gap at the 1st fret. So, I think it's set up really well, TBH.

I'm sticking with "it needs to be broken in" or "this piece of wood is just stiff"! I hope the first. I'm just going to keep playing it and see what happens.
 

Rayk

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Thanks. Is that measurement taken at the saddles? I did that, and the bass is just a hair higher than the treble side.
The luthier took measurements there and said all looked well, but did take down the bass side just a hair (the action was 2.6mm, and he brought it down to 2.5mm). That made a difference.
The nut looks good. I can fret an F chord just fine, and tapping the string there is just a small gap at the 1st fret. So, I think it's set up really well, TBH.

I'm sticking with "it needs to be broken in" or "this piece of wood is just stiff"! I hope the first. I'm just going to keep playing it and see what happens.

I don’t get the “it needs to be broken in part “ ?

The only thing that gets broken in would be the guitars tone also referred to as opening up .

The playability is what it is as far as build goes and will not change . Less the above discussion on setup and neck angle .

What guitars have you played that feel right ? Get the specs from those guitars and compare them to yours whatever it is ? I’m gunna have go back and read lol

Edit , it’s the D40 where talking being stiff ? What year is it ? I jump off the cliff and say the fretboard radius is 12” on the standard series I’ve seen listings saying it could be 16” .
 
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Kitarkus

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setup looks pretty good to my eye on my D-40....I'm no luthier....but I've had my hands on more than a few guitars. When one moves from a small body, electric, or light gauge string guitar to a dread setup with 13's.....they are bound to feel somewhat 'stiff' methinks.
 
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