Cleating cracks

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,790
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
50%! Lordy, no wonder they dried out. I think of 40% as about right here in the arid zone.

Seem to recall 45-55% being quoted as ideal range for guitars, and being told that's the reason I didn't need a humidifier here in he SF Bay area, because that's the range for about 99% of the year.
Cold drops humidity the most out here, because the colder the air the less moisture it can hold as vapor.
Is your storage room unheated?
Might be one more factor in the drying out. I'd suggest trying to keep it around 60 degrees at the lowest and more like 70 as an ideal.
I'm thinking even though Arizona's considered "hot", you might be in an area that sees significant nighttime drops in temp, at least at some times of the year.. and yes your summers might be pretty dry too except for when those monsoon fronts roll through.
 

Darryl Hattenhauer

Venerated Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
11,083
Reaction score
317
Location
Phoenix, AZ, USA
Addie,

A guitar store owner here told me he kept the room for his upscale axes at 40%. I've even heard that 30% is ok here in Fee Nicks. But I'm going to have to ask more people. I now suspect that 40% might be a minimum, and that he keeps it that low because it would be too uncomfortable at 50% for somebody who just walked in from 20%--the average outdoor "hum a ditty" in Phonics.


Defjamfault,

I think he had it welded.

dh
 

mavuser

Enlightened Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
8,128
Reaction score
2,636
Location
New York
Best bet I have found is the in-case "Oasis" humidifier. 20 bucks. it uses distilled water, but can go a good week or 2 without refilling. the sponges need water every couple days, in the winter time. And I had a planet waves sponge design humidifier (for 10 bucks)- it dried out fast but I used it alot. one day it was all moldy! So I have Oasis humidifiers in all my acoustics now (in the cases).


or if you really want to spend some coin, you can get one of these:

http://americanmusicfurniture.com/fullscreen-portfolio/
 

fronobulax

Bassist, GAD and the Hot Mess Mods
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
24,708
Reaction score
8,836
Location
Central Virginia, USA
Guild Total
5
My unreliable memory says that the Guild literature that accompanied one of this household's new (from New Hartford) guitars said 45%-50% RH was preferred.
 

Darryl Hattenhauer

Venerated Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
11,083
Reaction score
317
Location
Phoenix, AZ, USA
Thanks, frono. When I moved to Phoenix, I should have made a lot more inquiries about humidity. I know have a Guild uke with back cracks. It used to be near mint.
 

wileypickett

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
4,964
Reaction score
4,490
Location
Cambridge, MA
After years of refilling (and refilling and refilling) my Oasis humidifiers, I recently switched to the Planet Waves / D'Addario two-way system. These maintain a 40% / 50% humidity level, putting moisture into your guitar as needed, but also absorbing moisture when it gets too humid.

http://daddario.com/pwProductDetail...stem&sid=a6c66e0b-27c3-4912-a2c6-dd002222a8b0

I've got around 20 guitars, and these things are better than anything else I've ever used, and I've used just about everything, starting way back when with soap dishes with sponges inside, moving on to Damp-its, and beyond.

The literature says the pouches only need replacing every two to six months. Well, I've been using mine for nearly nine months and the pouches in most of my guitars are still like new.

Of the few that did dry out and need replacing most were, interestingly, the ones in my archback maple sides-and-back models. (Anyone have any idea why that might be?!)

They're not exactly cheap, but they require a LOT less futzing around with than any other product I know of. If you have a lot of guitars (as ONE or TWO us here do!) that's a huge savings in time and effort.

Anyway, FWIW, I recommend 'em.

(By the way, I'm in New England, where summers are pretty humid and winters dry.)

Glenn
 

wileypickett

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
4,964
Reaction score
4,490
Location
Cambridge, MA
Thanks, Wiley. They are $20 at Sam Ash, just down the street from me. I'm going to try one.

Yeah, I did the same thing. I bought a couple packs just to try 'em out, then bought more over time once I knew I liked 'em.

Eventually I bought the 12-pack of replacement pouches, which go for as little as 40 bucks on eBay, and that's with free shipping. I've only had to replace four so far.

I don't know if any of the pouches will last as long as a year -- I'll find out I guess -- but even nine months is darn good value-for-money IMO. And no hassle.
 

geoguy

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
3,519
Reaction score
1,640
Location
metrowest MA
You can recharge those pouches, if they dry out. I've done that a couple of times with some that came with a used-instrument purchase. Just put the dry pouch in a baggie with a damp sponge, or add a damp-sponge-in-a-baggie to a guitar case that already contains the dried-out Humidipak (or whatever they call 'em nowadays).
 

gjmalcyon

Senior Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
4,179
Reaction score
2,417
Location
Gloucester County, NJ
Guild Total
13
My guitars and my 3 humidors of cigars both require attention.

The guitars get Oasis case humidifiers AND the two-way 50% relative humidity pouches.

The humidors get cigar pouches (70% relative humidity) and humidifiers attached to the lids.

The the cigar and guitar pouches are both made by Boveda (the guitar pouches are branded D'Addario).

If you Google "recharge boveda" you'll find some tips and techniques to recharge their pouches.

I use the technique that puts them in a sealed plastic container sitting above a pool of distilled water and also the one that wraps them up in a damp paper towel inside a sealed ziploc bag.

It works.

Haven't bought a pouch in several years now, have rescued some rock-solid pouches.
 
Last edited:

Darryl Hattenhauer

Venerated Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
11,083
Reaction score
317
Location
Phoenix, AZ, USA
Do any of you use a room humidifier? I used to use mine regularly, but then I got irregular, so to speak, and now I have cracks I don't need.

So a few days ago, I went back to leaving it on all the time. Today I raised the setting to 50%. I'm leaving the lids open on the cases of the 3 cracked instruments. But with another 29 cased instruments in one bedroom, I don't have room to leave more cases open. How long will it take for the instruments inside the closed cases to absorb the same amount of humidity that the axes in the 3 open cases will be getting? Any guesstimates?
 

Antney

Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
510
Reaction score
176
Do any of you use a room humidifier? I used to use mine regularly, but then I got irregular, so to speak, and now I have cracks I don't need.

So a few days ago, I went back to leaving it on all the time. Today I raised the setting to 50%. I'm leaving the lids open on the cases of the 3 cracked instruments. But with another 29 cased instruments in one bedroom, I don't have room to leave more cases open. How long will it take for the instruments inside the closed cases to absorb the same amount of humidity that the axes in the 3 open cases will be getting? Any guesstimates?

29 cases...I don't have 29 of anything
 

GardMan

Enlightened Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
5,359
Reaction score
959
Location
Utah
Guild Total
5
...Cold drops humidity the most out here, because the colder the air the less moisture it can hold as vapor...

It is true that cold air can carry less water vapor. But, for guitars (and our skin) it is the RELATIVE (RH) humidity that matters. The RH is the ratio (expressed as a per cent) of the actual water content divided by the max water content AT THAT TEMPERATURE. So, 40% RH is 40% RH, even at low temp. And 40% RH at low temp 35F is just as good for guitars as 40% RH at 70F.

The reason winter is a problem for guitars, wood, and skin is that the outside air RH may be 40% at 35F (here in SLC, it is more like 15% at 25F), ... but then we go and heat the air in our houses. So the air that was at 35F and 40% RH is now 70F... and could carry more moisture. So RH drops (unless we ADD moisture with a humidifier).

I now try and keep my Guilds just around 40% RH... because they sound better. When the RH gets up to 50%, they don't have the sparkle they have at 40% RH. Some of this may just be that sound travels differently at higher RH (think of walking thru a quiet, foggy night), but I think some of it is a change in the wood.
 
Last edited:

Darryl Hattenhauer

Venerated Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2006
Messages
11,083
Reaction score
317
Location
Phoenix, AZ, USA
GardMan; I now try and keep my Guilds just around 40% RH... because they sound better. When the RH gets up to 50% said:
Yes, that sounds right, because the humidity will expand the wood, and somewhere along the line the swelling must impede the sound, I would think.
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,790
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Addie,
A guitar store owner here told me he kept the room for his upscale axes at 40%. I've even heard that 30% is ok here in Fee Nicks. But I'm going to have to ask more people. I now suspect that 40% might be a minimum, and that he keeps it that low because it would be too uncomfortable at 50% for somebody who just walked in from 20%--the average outdoor "hum a ditty" in Phonics.
"RH" Is called "Relative Humility" because it's temperature dependant
The hotter your temper, the more humble your relatives.


Or put another way, a cubic litre of air can hold more total water vapor at 70 degrees than at 40 degrees.
With due respect to Dave, 40% relative humidity at 35 is not as humid a 40% at 70, because relative humidity is NOT the same as absolute humidity, which is what we should actually be talking about unless we aqree on a given specific reference temperature.
From the usual source:

The differences in the amount of water vapor in a parcel of air can be quite large. For example, a parcel of air that is near saturation may contain 28 grams of water per cubic meter of air at 30 °C, but only 8 grams of water per cubic meter of air at 8 °C.
There are three main measurements of humidity: absolute, relative and specific. Absolute humidity is the water content of air expressed in gram per cubic meter.[2] Relative humidity, expressed as a percent, measures the current absolute humidity relative to the maximum (highest point) for that temperature.
 
Last edited:

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,790
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
Yes, that sounds right, because the humidity will expand the wood, and somewhere along the line the swelling must impede the sound, I would think.

When it's been discussed before it was said it's due to the ability of the drier wood to vibrate more easily, which made complete sense to me.
My guitars always seem happiest in late spring (May and June) when temps are in high '70's to low '80's, and RH is probably at the lower end of the 45-55 range, maybe even truly a little lower at that time of year.
In Fall (like September), when we get higher RH's accompanying thunderstorm weather, they do seem a bit more muffled.
 

wileypickett

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
4,964
Reaction score
4,490
Location
Cambridge, MA
You can recharge those pouches, if they dry out. I've done that a couple of times with some that came with a used-instrument purchase. Just put the dry pouch in a baggie with a damp sponge, or add a damp-sponge-in-a-baggie to a guitar case that already contains the dried-out Humidipak (or whatever they call 'em nowadays).

"I did not know that," to quote the bard (Johnny Carson).

I'll try it with the next pouch that dries out. Thanks for the tip!

Glenn
 
Top