Me, a blasphemer...

mikbass

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I might be risking being banned from this great forum after this post, but I had the privilege of owning a Dearmond
Starfire bass AND a Guild NS starfire at the same time. The NS being the early model w only a bridge pickup.

I sat down for hours, A-B-ing them and ended up not needing the Guild.

I must confess, I was really taken by the harmonics, the versatility, of the Bi-sonic BUT it is in the wrong place
if you ask me. Next will be a Starfire II when I get my hands on one. Meanwhile, my Dearmond is perfect.

Sorry...
 
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gilded

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The 'bridge-only' pickup on the NS SFI is in the same relative spot on the 30" Starfire scale that the Fender Precision pickup is on the 34" scale. That ain't bad.

The 'new Bi-Sonic pickups' I have heard recordings of from the NS line don't sound like the original Bi-Sonics that I own or have heard. As an early '66 SFI owner, the thing I like about the sweet spot pickup is that it is part of relatively simple circuit and I don't have listen to my signal get mauled by a baritone 'suck' switch, etc.

I never spent much time with a neck-only bass once I got out of the '70s, although the removal of the dreaded 'suck' switch might well allow me to change my mind.

Why don't you wait until you hear the real deal pickup before your heretical ways land you in an apostatical predicament?

And the DeArmonds are good basses.
 

Minnesota Flats

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I have an NS SF-I and an NS SF-II and find myself playing the SF-II more, but usually with the selector switch in the "bridge-only" position. I just like having the option of bringing in some less trebley tone on the fly, I guess. I also replaced the rosewood bridge saddle on the SF-II with brass ones, so that could be effecting my choice as well. Both are great basses, IMO.

Haven't ever played a DeArmond, so have no experience-based opinion as to their relative sound, but there's certainly nothing wrong with your preferring it if it does what you need. I came close to buying a sunburst one once, but I prefer unbound necks so waited for a good price on the NS SF-I instead. DeArmond SFs seem like nice enough basses.
 

AcornHouse

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(Of course, I just sold my Pilot and replaced it with a chea...er...inexpensive Ibanez.)
 

Minnesota Flats

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I dunno. I just like a simple, minimal look, I guess. A totally arbitrary preference. Also prefer simple dot or Gretsch "thumbnail" position markers to blocks, parallelograms, "birds" or more elaborate inlays.
 

AcornHouse

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I dunno. I just like a simple, minimal look, I guess. A totally arbitrary preference. Also prefer simple dot or Gretsch "thumbnail" position markers to blocks, parallelograms, "birds" or more elaborate inlays.
What about dragons? Surely you have to like dragons!
dragon20.jpg



(Veer over)
 

davismanLV

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Oh HELL yeah!! Who wouldn't want dragons!!! Beautiful!! I like bling and some flash, but the funny thing is when I'm playing I see none of it. None. It's just a fretboard to me. However I don't play the electrics so..... maybe that's a difference. I dunno. But DRAGONS!!! :encouragement:
 

fronobulax

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You are entitled to your opinion and I tend to learn from the experience of telling someone their opinion is WRONG so I look forward to an educational experience. ;-)

First I seem to recall a couple people whose main bass is a DeArmond Starfire, although with a pickup swap. They are gigging with it so I have to respect their experience and their choice.

I disagree with you on the PU position. I own a '67 neck PU and a NS SF so I can A/B them to my heart's content. I had a chance to play gilded's sweet spot '66 with the vintage bisonic and, if it weren't for the sentimental baggage that goes with the '67, I'd swap them both for a sweet spot '66 and be happy. My two pickup basses - the JS II and the Pilot - shouldn't be compared to a Starfire but I have never found a compelling reason to want a Starfire II. But I very much understand this is a personal preference and influenced by technique as well. I find I am varying my tone, when I want to, by moving where I pluck and the results are different for me between the neck and sweet spot positions. The two pickup basses feel like the pickups get in the way of my right hand and when you are old and set in your ways, it is easier to blame the tool than adjust ;-)

As for blasphemy, I must confess that my custom Betts bass still gets more play time lately than the rest of my Guilds combined so I must be guilty of something.
 

dreadnut

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Hey, at least your DeArmond bass doesn't have "Guild" inlaid into the headstock like the current ones being built in Korea...I thought "DeArmond" was a more straightforward and honest approach to off-shore-produced Guilds...OK I'll get off my soapbox now. BTW, I love My DeArmond Starfire Special.
 

Minnesota Flats

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I hear there's a kimchee odor that eminates from the DeArmond sound holes...
 

wisconsindead

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I never spent much time with a neck-only bass once I got out of the '70s, although the removal of the dreaded 'suck' switch might well allow me to change my mind.

That god damn suck switch just ruins the neck pickup, on or off. I had quite the debacle trying to figure that thing out.

I'm with mavuser. Neck pickup on the starfire bass, all day. I actually have a SFII and I removed the bridge pickup entirely, but that was because the strings would clank on top of that pickup.
 

Minnesota Flats

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I am of the opinion that ones SF pup position preference (or PPP, if you will) may vary partly in accordance with what amp and effects the bass is being run through and how the bass, amp and/or pre-amp EQ is tweaked. That being the case I doubt we'll ever reach consensus as to which PPP is better, given that we all probably play through different rigs.

Hope that muddies the water sufficiently...

:witless:
 

adorshki

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I am of the opinion that ones SF pup position preference (or PPP, if you will) may vary partly in accordance with what amp and effects the bass is being run through and how the bass, amp and/or pre-amp EQ is tweaked. That being the case I doubt we'll ever reach consensus as to which PPP is better, given that we all probably play through different rigs.

Hope that muddies the water sufficiently...

:witless:

I disagree 100%.
I think the folks with the neck PPP hear exactly the same characteristics I do when I discovered the "sweet spot" right over the fretboard extension on my acoustics.
Plucking almost at the middle of the string not only seems to bring out the most balanced dynamics between the gauges but also yields a particularly sweet and woody sound.
So it makes sense to me that the neck p'up is also positioned to capture the same peculiarities in string vibration that color the sound in an acoustic.
So there.
:glee:
 

fronobulax

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I am in violent agreement that the preferred PU position is a personal preference and that preference is not the same for everyone.

I somewhat disagree that the signal chain is a major contributor to that preference because when I switch the '67 and NS all I change is which instrument is plugged into the cable. Yet there is a difference and a preference. My subjective experience with instruments and amps that I do not own attributes the difference to both location and vintage vs. reissue.

I think we need to start a GoFundMe campaign. The goal will be to gather a vintage, Bisonic SF I with sweetspot, a vintage Bisonic Starfire I with neck and a Newark Street bass in the same place. That should allow for A/B comparisons with the same player and signal chain and produce a reasonable description of how the location effects the sound and how vintage vs. reissue PU effects the sound. Since this is a preference the campaign will not claim one is better but just state the differences. I can bring two of the three instruments. If we do this in the winter maybe it can pay to send me to Texas and gilded. Summer, and the campaign flies Harry to Virginia. Wild card might be everyone descends on New Jersey. We could get GAD to direct and document the experiment.

:) :)
 

Minnesota Flats

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"I somewhat disagree that the signal chain is a major contributor to that preference because when I switch the '67 and NS all I change is which instrument is plugged into the cable. Yet there is a difference and a preference."

You've stated my point better than I did. All variables other than the bass itself should be the same to evaluate the relative merits of the various pup positions. This may not yield the "ultimate" bass/pedal/amp combination, but it will clarify which differences are due only to pup position. Otherwise, some of the tonal differences could be coming from someplace other than the pups.

"...preferred PU position is a personal preference and that preference is not the same for everyone."

Agreed. And the genre of music being played and what/how many instruments are in the mix and how they are EQ-ed are also pertinent factors (unless we are talking strictly about "bedroom" tone).
 

mavuser

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I think there was definitely variation in tone pots used in the neck position in the 60s (250K and 500K), and this is the main difference in tone *also combined to a lesser degree, with pick up location and wood species (and the suck switch circuit, which also adds caps and resistors). There has been at least one case also, where I have suspected the possibility of some of those extra caps, etc added to the circuit *without the suck switch, just before the suck switch was incorporated (but im not sure). Also some of the early SF Basses had a pickup with one large magnet, where most had 2 smaller magnets. So without knowing exactly what is under the hood of any given bass, it is tough to say exactly what it is you prefer over something else. Probably a lot more accurate to say "I prefer Gilded's SF bass I w/Bisonic to Frono's SF bass I w/Bisonic" than to say "I prefer all bridge position SF I's w/Bisonic to all Neck position SF I's w/Bisonic."

If you are just talking about ergonomics, that is different.

A good test would be to play a SF-2 bass and see which pickup you prefer on that one (again, it is not necassarily the location of the pickup that you prefer, just the tone of the pickup- which is a combination of things, and pickup location is part of that combination...)
 
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