Is There Any Way of Getting My Guitar's Specs?

PittPastor

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I think I know the answer, but is there anywhere I can get a spec sheet on my 1980 Guild DG40-C?

My challenge is that it is a 1980, and IIRC, Hans Moust's The Guild Guitar Book only goes up to 1977.

Some I got from the Luthier while he was looking at it (i.e. dovetail joint to the neck, rosewood bridge, bone saddle). But I really don't know the wood it was made up of, I don't really know the nut size, bracing inside, what strings did Guild ship it with originally... Any of that. Seems like I should know it. But I don't.

Is that something Guild would have if I contacted them? Or was it lost when Westerly closed up shop?
 

adorshki

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I think I know the answer, but is there anywhere I can get a spec sheet on my 1980 Guild DG40-C?
As a D40 owner and fanboy myself, allow me to offer what I've gleaned over the years here.
First, even without seeing it, I believe the soundhole label will say "D40C" and that is the proper model name even though the s/n uses the "DG40" prefix.
That distinguishes them from the regular non-cutaway D40's that used the "D40C" s/n prefix.
Did you know by the way that the D40C was the very first dreadnought guitar to be built with a cutaway, introduced in '76?
The guy who designed and built it introduced himself here a couple of years back.
Second, I don't think that's actually a bone saddle, at least, the only thing I know Hans has confirmed was used in Westerly during that period was a material called Micarta, a synthetic that was (is)very reliable for consistency and workability and very well suited to the task. Used for the nuts, too.
If it's bone I think it was replaced at some point.
The bridgepins were plastic.
Note that the Westerlyguildguitars site GJM linked to is highly respected here and maintained by a member(s), but the spec sheet shown on any given model should only be seen as accurate for the year of that sheet, and even then there're still goofs generated by Guild themselves. Those sheets and pics and "blurbs" are taken right from Guild lit.
Many models underwent spec changes over the course of production although the D40 did remain fairly stable as far as I've seen, except for some minor variations in saddle design and headstock inlays.
The '99 spec sheet shown is still an accurate representation of the basic D40 build formula (and dimensions):
Solid Mahogany (most likely Honduran as being the most widely available from the '60's up through the '00's) back and sides. (With Guild a solid back meant it was a traditional "flatback" design; as opposed to their famous arched backs which were laminated and glued up and formed in a steam press)
Solid sitka spruce top (a Guild hallmark, no laminated tops on Guild flat-top acoustics);
in 1980 most likely an East Indian Rosewood bridge and fretboard. (Guild did use Brazilian from their stockpile on their rosewood-bodied guitars up until approximately '71 or '72, and they had blanks small enough for fretboards and bridges even after that, but I suspect it was gone by '80 in regular production like D40's. Hans showed some replacement parts bridges of Braz here, once, but can't remember for sure when they dated to, maybe '78?)
Have never seen a spec for bridgeplate material (only remember maple or rosewood being reported in any Guilds, here) or bracing, as in whether "standard" or shaved or scalloped, although I seem to recall owner reports of shaved bracing during that period. (Your luthier can look at 'em and tell)
As far as I can remember seeing, spec was always for 1-11/16" nut although that could vary very slightly due to the fact that in Westerly, all necks were given final profile shaping by hand.
By far for dreadnoughts the 1-11/16 nut was most common, but Guild seemed to go "off-spec" with nut width at will:
We know for sure a batch of very early (1964) D40's were given 1-3/4 nuts and very flat fretboards, and we've recently also seen 2 G37's from the late '80's with 1-5/8" nuts, and other examples of 1-3/4" nuts on DV type guitars from the early '90's.
The fretboard radius on Guild flattops was only announced as standardized at 12" (a little bit of curvature) in '97.
Prior to that I think that was probably the most common radius, like the 1-11/16 nut width, but again it seems that was another build detail that was never formally spec'd and I've seen reports of "flatter" but can't recall any reports of "tighter" (more curved than a 12" radius) fretboards on D40's.
D40's always got white binding and a specific rosette pattern.
Can't recall what tuners would hav been in '80 but from what I remember of your description, yours are probably original (It's also why I think you've actually got micarta bone and nut)

My challenge is that it is a 1980, and IIRC, Hans Moust's The Guild Guitar Book only goes up to 1977.
Even then I've noticed Hans' book doesn't always have all the specs. I've only ever seen bracing discussed here, from member's reports, for example.

Some I got from the Luthier while he was looking at it (i.e. dovetail joint to the neck, rosewood bridge, bone saddle). But I really don't know the wood it was made up of, I don't really know the nut size, bracing inside, what strings did Guild ship it with originally... Any of that. Seems like I should know it. But I don't.
No, I think unless you were really hardcore in 1980, it was a different world. The only thing I knew was that a solid top was better. Bone saddles? Never heard of 'em until the "boutique" makers like Santa Cruz started coming onto the radar in the '90's.
STRINGS: another area where I've never seen an actual catalog "spec" from that era.
Westerlyguildgutars has some price sheets from '70's and '87 and '88, and at that time Guild was still offering multiple alloys and gauge combinations, I assume to cover the needs/preferences of owners of different types and build eras of Guilds.

I think in 1980 D40's were probably built and shipped with mediums, probably D'Addario phosphor bronze.
Guild was the first maker to join with D'Addario when D'A introduced phosphor bronze in '74, but as I mentioned I've never actually seen a gauge set spec'd for a given model prior to my introduction to the brand in '96. At that time pb blights were spec'd for virtually all Guild acoustics.
But I recall our member Westerly Wood, after doing a little digging, reporting that he discovered his '71 D25 was most likely built and shipped with mediums. That's what I base my guess about what strings your D40 shipped with, on.
Guitars are actually designed around what string gauge tension they're going to handle.
From member reports here, Guild's build characteristics seemed to vary back and forth from "built like a tank" (mid-'70's to early '80's IIRC) to "lightened up" (probably due to George Gruhn taking over and bringing in master luthier Kim Walker) in early '80's.
I think they "heavied up" again in late '80's and then lightened up again by the mid '90's with Fender takeover.
My '96 D25 is a featherweight for example, but my '03 D40 from Corona's a real "tank".
In 1980 I think the average buyer believed "medium=louder" was the way to go, and the guitars were built to handle 'em accordingly.
It may seem curious that my "built like a tank" Corona was spec'd for lights, but by that time the importance of top design and bracing subtleties over all else was better understood.
A counterpoint is the New Hartford ultra-light builds that were designed for medium strings.
You probably won't lose much by using lights on a guitar designed for mediums, but putting mediums on a guitar built for lights can actually be counter-productive.
Get Mr. Day's take on what's best for your guitar without overstressing the neck or over-torqueing the top, he'll know exactly what I mean.

Is that something Guild would have if I contacted them? Or was it lost when Westerly closed up shop?
I guarantee you Oxnard will have no info. This is the best place on the net for that kind of info.
We already know Oxnard has no previous history records, Fender didn't pass 'em on, and Fender itself wasn't real finicky about their record keeping even when they did own Guild from November '95 up through the sale to Oxnard in '14. When Westerly closed some of the records had already been lost or misplaced.
Hans actually has build logs from Westerly, everything he could get a-hold of.
When he does reference 'em it sounds like they're pretty sparse with info as well, largely being listings of what s/n's were completed or shipped on a given day, IIRC.
Can't remember exactly how he got 'em (for a while I had an incorrect memory that he literally dumpster-dived at Westerly while it was closing, but he corrected me about that recently)
I seem to recall a comment that they were available because Fender didn't deem 'em worth keeping.
There's a bit more generic explanation here:
http://guildguitars.com/history-of-my-guild/
That page contains a link to the PDF of the available s/n records.
 
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PittPastor

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adorshki - Thank you so much! That was pretty much exactly what I was after. I'm going to save that on my dropbox account so I never lose it.

As for the bone, the Luthier tapped it and he said he thought it was bone. Not a real good examination. I'll ask Stuart to fill in some of the blanks on the innards of it. And whatever he can think of to add to it.

Weirdly, BTW, I have no label at all in the sound hole. I don't remember it ever falling out or anything, its just not there. It has the Guild stamped in it on a bracing, but no label. My Mark II has one, but not my D40C.

I seem to think the strings were mediums. Not that I knew enough to ask, but I seem to recall taking the Guild to a music shop when I bought my first set of strings and the guy there said: "These are mediums. Would you like to try something lighter?" I had no idea what to say and he added: "It will be easier on the fingers," and so I said yes.

I did ask Stuart what he thought and he said that on vintage guitars his go-to string is the D'Addario lights and that's always what he uses unless someone asks for something different. I have D'Addario Mediums on them now, but I was planning on changing back to lights, anyway. I will probablyfinally end up with the Martin Retros, but I'm having fun trying different strings out right now.

So, the top wood is Sitka? (Hard to tell on the sunbursts!) That's interesting.

Thanks again for the detail!
 

fronobulax

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Is that something Guild would have if I contacted them? Or was it lost when Westerly closed up shop?

adorshki's answer applies. Guild's records were not always preserved across ownership changes.

If you took and posted lots of pictures you would get informed opinions. There are several folks with catalog collections and someone may be willing and able to scan a page for you. But... Guild catalogs are not always reliable. Some times the spec changes and the catalog doesn't. Sometimes nothing was ever actually built to the catalog specs and sometimes what was build was never cataloged. Welcome to the world of Guild.
 

adorshki

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- Thank you so much! That was pretty much exactly what I was after.
Yer welcome! "It's what we do, 'round here"
:friendly_wink:

As for the bone, the Luthier tapped it and he said he thought it was bone. Not a real good examination.
it yellows up like bone too, and it's not an uncommon assumption.
From Wiki:
Micarta
I have a strong suspicion it's the variety described as being made from cellulose paper in a phenolic resin (I think Hans confirmed the "phenolic" part of it once, but not positive.)
It just seems to fit the consistency of what my nuts and saddles are, except for the D25.
I did get bone nut and saddle installed in the D25 and it did make a noticeable difference.
Bone nut enhances the sustain and volume of unfretted strings when playing. Since I use a lot of open chords and was looking for that last "nth" of tone, I went for it.
Weirdly, BTW, I have no label at all in the sound hole. I don't remember it ever falling out or anything, its just not there.
We do have a few members here with missing labels, but I seem to recall they were predominantly from the mid-70's.
Most original owners do remember having it at some point point. Seems like the glue wasn't always up to par, but it was always a standard practice to give 'em a label.
I suspect you did have one once but have forgotten.
It probably read "D40C-SB" for SunBurst, and the s/n was written on it as well.
I seem to think the strings were mediums. Not that I knew enough to ask, but I seem to recall taking the Guild to a music shop when I bought my first set of strings and the guy there said: "These are mediums. Would you like to try something lighter?" I had no idea what to say and he added: "It will be easier on the fingers," and so I said yes.
Thanks, another data point for my informal memory database of what was used when.

I did ask Stuart what he thought and he said that on vintage guitars his go-to string is the D'Addario lights and that's always what he uses unless someone asks for something different. I have D'Addario Mediums on them now, but I was planning on changing back to lights, anyway. I will probably finally end up with the Martin Retros, but I'm having fun trying different strings out right now.
Lotta love for Ej-16's 'round here, (D'A uncoated pb lights 12-53), they're my go-to myself, except the F65ce was built for and supplied with extra-lights.
So if the Retros don't work it's hard to go wrong with D'A's, and like I said, from at least the late '80's for sure through end of Westerly D'A actually supplied Guild's flat-top strings (and maybe all of 'em as far as I know); with Guild labels on 'em.
I always recall one report from a member that DR was the supplier for a while (I'm thinking it must have been early '80's) and it made sense because DR was founded by one of Guild founder Al Dronge's sons.
But I also remember reports of inconsistent quality on 'em, so have never really considered trying 'em. I hate to change strings anyway, LOL!.

So, the top wood is Sitka? (Hard to tell on the sunbursts!) That's interesting.
Oh sitka was by far the most popular spruce topwood for all makers from the '50's onward.
A while back a new member asked if there was any indication that Guild ever used Adi prior to Tacoma. Nobody had any evidence to offer that they ever did nor was any marketing lit found or shown that made the claim.
But the most convincing argument against it was that during WWII the primary sources of Adirondack were over-harvested and the sources didn't really recover enough to start producing usable wood again until the '90's, when it started showing up again in the boutique builds, like Santa Cruz.
BUT: Guild was small enough to buy direct from producers and their buyer/grader is renowned here for getting 'em some really good stuff. Guild's "standard" stuff might even get "AA" rating by other makers and their AA and triple-A stuff was fantastic.
One word for most of the tops I've seen here: Silky
While grading is not standardized and is largely based on cosmetic standards, I'm positive Willie Fritscher knew how to pick stuff that was gonna sound better based on grain analysis and other stuff I don't even know about.
An article about Willie posted on that Westerlyguildguitars site:
Wood Selection
Thanks again for the detail!
Welll........it's all just part of priming new members for the next acquisition......... :glee:
 
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SFIV1967

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There are several folks with catalog collections and someone may be willing and able to scan a page for you. But... Guild catalogs are not always reliable. Some times the spec changes and the catalog doesn't. Sometimes nothing was ever actually built to the catalog specs and sometimes what was build was never cataloged. Welcome to the world of Guild.
The 1980 Guild catalog can be found here: http://acousticmusic.wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Guild-1980-Catalog.pdf

Ralf
 

Rayk

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Adorshki Wow ! Besides your name sounding kind of weird at the moment lol
Very impressive write up and history .
I just might not sleep tonight I’m all giddy !
Makes me want a D40 ..... 😁
 

PittPastor

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OK, thank you, thank you everyone.

adorshki - this group is like a "no kill" shelter for Guilds. Every Guild needs to find a forever home where it will be loved for and cared for forever.

I don't say that like it's a bad thing!

Rayk: The D40s are nice for sure!

SFIV1967: Thank you for the link. Was that there before? I swear I searched the site for the D40C -- but I guess this was a picture not a PDF. But thank you, that was very cool to see.

adorshki; Looks like I was wrong on the strings. Maybe that was the second time I replaced them that I switched off of Mediums. According to the brochure, the D40C came with Guild L350 strings, which were lights: "Phosphor bronze (P/B) LIGHT: .012 .016 .025w .032 .042 .053"
 

adorshki

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adorshki; Looks like I was wrong on the strings. Maybe that was the second time I replaced them that I switched off of Mediums. According to the brochure, the D40C came with Guild L350 strings, which were lights: "Phosphor bronze (P/B) LIGHT: .012 .016 .025w .032 .042 .053"
Ah, I see you caught that too.
I'm also notorious for frequently pointing out that .025 G string, which is the one difference between D'Addario EJ-16 (which uses an .024) and the L350 set, but I spared you the digression in that summary post.
I always by a spare D'A single to sub into the set to stay faithful to the factory gauges.
They were actually getting a little hard to find at a reasonable price for a while, but I discovered Stringsbymail last month:
https://www.stringsbymail.com/dadda...ze-acoustic-string-025-gauge-single-4062.html

Adorshki Wow ! Besides your name sounding kind of weird at the moment lol
When I first registered I thought I was gonna be able to change it easily.....when I discovered the truth it was too late.
I just might not sleep tonight I’m all giddy !
Makes me want a D40 ..... ��
Well I'll tell ya, for the first 10 years and I called it, and it literally was, "the sonic runt of the litter" volume-wise, but it really started coming into its own about 3 years ago or so.
It actually turns out to be the best of the 3 for cell phone recordings, too.
I seems like the flatback really does enhance individual note clarity and evens out relative string-to-string volume too, which was what Richie himself said he liked about Guilds.
The tiny little mics on cell phones seem to like it better than the archbacks.
 
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GardMan

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A lot of your questions have already been answered. Spec for nut width would have been 1-11/16", but variations on that theme are certainly known. Top bracing would likely be similar to that of my '81 D-46, which looks like diagram 2 in this figure:

161083471.jpg


I would bet the bridge plate is EIR. I have seen maple bridge plates on '72 and earlier dreads, and some later "high end" Guilds. But the mid-range Guilds (like my '81 D-46) have what looks to be EI rosewood bridge plates:

120991054.jpg


Bracing is likely "straight;" not scalloped, not shaved. If the braces are scalloped or shaved, it was likely done after it left the factory.
 
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