Different bridge sizes on same model guitars?

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This is kind of odd...to me anyway...

I have two 2005 Guild F-50r's (Tacoma) and they have different size bridges!

Not just the saddle, but the actual bridge itself!

I'm calling the sunburst one "'burst" and the natural one "Kristofferson" (the one he signed for me)

The serial numbers indicate they were assembled just a few months apart for each other...the 'burst in July and "kristofferson" in Sept.

The 'burst has the Fishman Matrix Natural 1 UST, factory option installed.
I believe "Kristofferson" came from the factory without any pickup. (Neal later added the K&K)

I stumbled across this when I was trying to order the bone saddle for the 'burst. (I'm going to pull the Fishman and install the K&K)
The saddle in the 'burst is .07 X 2.79
whereas the "kristofferson" saddle is .12 X 2.86

The overall width of the bridge at its widest (bout-to-bout) is pretty close
'burst 6.0
Kristofferson 6.05

The overall width of the bridge from the flat part in front of the saddle to the deepest point at the curve (top-to-bottom)
'burst 1.46
Kristofferson 1.65

From the flat side in front of the saddle to the curved "points" in the bridge (back of the pins):
'burst 1.28
Kristofferson 1.65

In other words, the Kritofferson bridge is a lot bigger!

Pics...the 'burst has white pins, "Kristofferson" has black pins:

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Is this unusual, or typical Guild manufacturing?
 

GardMan

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IIRC, Guild switched to a thicker saddle (from 3/32" to maybe 1/8") sometime in the Tacoma years... perhaps was thought to necessitate a slightly larger bridge? Perhaps your guitars were on either side of that transition?
 

txbumper57

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I remember Neal replaced the saddle in your "Kristofferson" bridge with a new bone compensated saddle from Oxnard before he put it up for sale so for sure the "Kristofferson" saddle is not original to the guitar. That New Bone saddle is close to the same dimensions as the New Hartford saddles. Seeing as the Burst finish guitar was the first to be built in early to mid 2005 I would think there is a possibility that it has some of the same parts as the Previous Corona made Guilds before they changed the specs in Tacoma. Could be an example of using up the parts on hand before implementing the spec change. That may be the difference in actual bridge sizes on the 2 guitars. Just an idea of course.

The other thing I was thinking was maybe the bridge was replaced on one guitar or the other somewhere down the line and the replacement was not an exact match. Just another idea.

TX
 

sailingshoes72

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I don't have any info about the "specs" from the Tacoma era, but from a historical perspective the smaller bridge on the 'burst looks closer in size to the bridges featured on the F-50 guitars from the late 1950's and 1960's.

See Hans' book, page 105: the Buddy Holly F-50 SB (1957)
and: http://www.vintagemandolin.com/67guild_f50sb_AD246.html

LTG member Christopher Cozad has some interesting information about bridge construction and mass here at Post #12

http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?193990-Bridge-Pins&highlight=bridge+pins

It would be interesting to know if the two guitars sound any different because of the bridge size and mass.

Bill
 
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I remember Neal replaced the saddle in your "Kristofferson" bridge with a new bone compensated saddle from Oxnard before he put it up for sale so for sure the "Kristofferson" saddle is not original to the guitar. That New Bone saddle is close to the same dimensions as the New Hartford saddles. Seeing as the Burst finish guitar was the first to be built in early to mid 2005 I would think there is a possibility that it has some of the same parts as the Previous Corona made Guilds before they changed the specs in Tacoma. Could be an example of using up the parts on hand before implementing the spec change. That may be the difference in actual bridge sizes on the 2 guitars. Just an idea of course.

The other thing I was thinking was maybe the bridge was replaced on one guitar or the other somewhere down the line and the replacement was not an exact match. Just another idea.

TX

Kinda what I was thinking, TX.
The bridge on the 'burst is pretty close to the dimensions on the bridge on my 2012 F50 (N.H.).
And it would be easy to hide the silhouette of a removed smaller bridge under a replacement larger bridge.

SO...perhaps the bridge on "Kristofferson" may have been replaced with a larger one at some point.
Not that it makes a difference in the sound, projection, volume, tone, intonation or playability of the guitar!
It's one kick a$$ instrument and I wouldn't change a thing on it now!
 
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I don't have any info about the "specs" from the Tacoma era, but from a historical perspective the smaller bridge on the 'burst looks closer in size to the bridges featured on the F-50 guitars from the late 1950's and 1960's.

See Hans' book, page 105: the Buddy Holly F-50 SB (1957)
and: http://www.vintagemandolin.com/67guild_f50sb_AD246.html

LTG member Christopher Cozad has some interesting information about bridge construction and mass here at Post #12

http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?193990-Bridge-Pins&highlight=bridge+pins

It would be interesting to know if the two guitars sound any different because of the bridge size and mass.

Bill

The guitars sound so close...it's kinda scary! One has a new compensated bone saddle ("Kristofferson"), and one has the stock 'whatever the hell they used in 2005' ('burst), AND it has a factory-installed UST under the saddle...and yet they sound remarkably similar acoustically. In fact, the 'burst may sound just a bit brighter...but it has newer strings. Both are strung with .12 D'Addario EJ16.
 
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sailingshoes72

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RR... digging a little deeper, both of the examples that I listed above are flawed. According to Hans' book, the "cloud" shaped bridge became standard circa 1966. Before that time, Guild used a smooth "belly" bridge similar to a Martin bridge.

The 1967 Navarre F-50 SB listed at Vintage Mandolin has an unusual center dip on the bottom edge of the bridge; and the Buddy Holly F-50 SB (1957) is too early a manufacture date for a "cloud" bridge. What gives??? I dunno!!! Another Guild mystery.

Bill
 

jedzep

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Sorry to butt in friends, but as long as we're talking bridges, I'm still searching for a used pre-'69 Hoboken era F20 bridge. Guild sells the correct style, but I'd love to have the BRW version. Big thanks!

Now back to the regularly scheduled topic.
 
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adorshki

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Sorry to butt in friends, but as long as we're talking bridges, I'm still searching for a used pre-'69 Hoboken era F20 bridge. Guild sells the correct style, but I'd love to have the BRW version. Big thanks!

Now back to the regularly scheduled topic.

Did you try Hans?
If he doesn't actually have one, I think he can give you the specs to get one made.
Got a suspicion those are gonna be the only 2 ways you'll get one in Braz.
Until it's in hand, then of course 3 or 4 of 'em'll pop up on eekBay.
 

adorshki

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SO...perhaps the bridge on "Kristofferson" may have been replaced with a larger one at some point.

I'd be very surprised about that on such a young guitar,
BUT: I notice the "G" pinhole itself looks a little out of line in the photo. Closer to the saddle than the others.
Never noticed that on a Guild before. So think you might be right.
Sure looks like a real Guild bridge, though.
Whassup wit dat?
 

jedzep

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Right about the fickle hand of how things time out. But it's a welcome reminder I should persist in searching the web. Hans did offer to look through his stash but I guess he couldn't ship to me if he had one. As well, I do have a beautiful BRW blank that I completely forgot about. That's not a good sign...but thanks for turning my light back on. My luthier could easily copy.
 
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I'd be very surprised about that on such a young guitar,
BUT: I notice the "G" pinhole itself looks a little out of line in the photo. Closer to the saddle than the others.
Never noticed that on a Guild before. So think you might be right.
Sure looks like a real Guild bridge, though.
Whassup wit dat?

Well, it’s a sort of optical illusion! The bridge pin itself doesnt stay down! It shifts up when it’s tuned to pitch. Didn’t really pop up, but I have to hold it down when changing strings, and it doesn’t seat properly. So the shadow of it being higher than the rest makes it look like it’s out of line. Neal changed the pins to ebony, but I’m going to change them to bone.
 

adorshki

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Well, it’s a sort of optical illusion! The bridge pin itself doesnt stay down! It shifts up when it’s tuned to pitch. Didn’t really pop up, but I have to hold it down when changing strings, and it doesn’t seat properly. So the shadow of it being higher than the rest makes it look like it’s out of line. Neal changed the pins to ebony, but I’m going to change them to bone.
Was hopin' that's all it was.
Then I'm in the school that says this was just another one of those spec changes that Tacoma had difficulty keeping up with as Chaz has mentioned.
Another thought is it wouldn't surprise me if it was a leftover Corona bridge on one of 'em.
We know in Westerly at least, they used to keep a stock of bridges in various heights because they matched the bridge to the neck angle since it was glued on after finishing.
If they were still doing that in Tacoma, maybe that bridge was the first one that fell to hand that was the right height for that guitar.
Also, my Corona D40's bridge is a full 1/8" taller than the 2 Westerlys.
I've wondered if that was due to the factory UST, that maybe they used beefier bridges on UST equipped models to enhance performance? Or maybe to help compensate for the ever-so-slightly deeper saddle slot?
I never thought to compare the footprints though.
 
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As soon as I can find the right size bridge pins I’m going to replace them on “Kristofferson” and I’m good! On the ‘burst, I gotta find a super skinny bone saddle, and I’m going to have my tech remove the stock Fishman Matrix Natural 1 (which didn’t sound natural at all) and install the K&K Pure Mini and bone pins! I played it this last weekend and my Soundman came over and said, “ she sounds a bit thin”, and he was being kind. But soon, all will be remedied!! Acoustically both guitars just sound awesome! And Kristofferson sounds amazing plugged in! Soon the ‘burst will rock!
 

tommym

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I have owned and seen more than one mid 70's F30 with what appeared to be an oversized bridge (possibly intended for the F112 12 string) drilled out for use on the 6 string F30 as they shared the same body. Looks odd when you see them side by side.

Tommy
 

adorshki

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I have owned and seen more than one mid 70's F30 with what appeared to be an oversized bridge (possibly intended for the F112 12 string) drilled out for use on the 6 string F30 as they shared the same body. Looks odd when you see them side by side.
Tommy
In fact we even saw a sample a few years back that had a 12-string top installed, detected by the unusual bracing that was specific to the 12-string and verified by Hans.
Like they needed an extra top that day and the 12-er top was the only thing available.
I don't think they needed to pull such shenanigans by the time they were in Tacoma, but who knows?
 
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