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Thread: Did Guild ever make Nylon String Guitars that were NOT Classical?

  1. #1
    Senior Member PittPastor's Avatar
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    Did Guild ever make Nylon String Guitars that were NOT Classical?

    I think I remember the NADs having a model with nylon strings.

    And, unless I am mistaken, the Doyle Dykes signature Guild had a nylon version. But I can't remember seeing any other models.

    Anyone know of something else?
    ----------------------------------
    1980 Guild D40C Sunburst
    1978 Guild Mark II Classical

    Soundcloud - Cat's In The Crade (D40C)

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    Senior Member adorshki's Avatar
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    http://westerlyguildguitars.com/guitars/paloma.html





    Sting was an endorser.

    I seem to have a vague recollection of an even earlier a/e from the '80's or early '90's that I saw shortly after I first joined.
    I'll let somebody else confirm or refute.
    Besides Hans, I bet Grot knows.
    Al
    "Time May Change the Technique of Music But Never Its Mission " - Rachmaninoff
    My 1st Guild: '96 Westerly D25NT "Hally" (10-31-96 stamped on heelblock)
    #2: '01 Westerly F65ce "Blondie"
    #3: '03 Corona D40e Richie Havens "Richie"
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    Senior Member walrus's Avatar
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    I think those still have a classical neck, if that's what PittPastor is asking...

    walrus
    1984 Guild D64
    2008 PRS Hollowbody Spruce

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    Senior Member PittPastor's Avatar
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    I'm just building a list right now, walrus. Ideally, I was sort of looking something less than a 2" nut. But, wow, I never even knew about the Paloma. That's a pretty cool look.
    ----------------------------------
    1980 Guild D40C Sunburst
    1978 Guild Mark II Classical

    Soundcloud - Cat's In The Crade (D40C)

  5. #5
    Senior Member adorshki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
    I think those still have a classical neck, if that's what PittPastor is asking...
    walrus
    I got a sneaking suspicion he means something other than classical guitar, because he mentions the Doyle Dykes nylon string model.
    Which by golly sure looks like it was fashioned from leftover Paloma bodies or at least the blueprints, which bear an incredible resemblance to S4ce's, all of 'em based on a solid slab of routed out 'hog with a spruce top, and S4ce's themselves unabashedly intended as "acoustic" versions of Nightbirds**:

    http://guildguitars.com/g/doyle-dykes-signature-nylon/

    So as far as I can tell a Paloma's an S4ce with a classical neck and no soundhole needed due to the UST.
    (Argument invited, it's kinda quiet right now anyway...)
    Sheerly for the sake of stimulating grand repartee, what would be the point of nylon strings on anything other than a classical neck?
    As far as I can see, they basically wouldn't work.
    Y'need a certain amount of action height just to get the top driven and clean fretting without buzzing or muting, and a certain amount of nut width for the right hand tasks.
    I figure the reason classicals haven't evolved much in a couple of hundred years is that they already kind of hit their evolutionary peak, and the neck's an integral part of it.
    Bombast aside, am I missing something?

    ** George Gruhn, from here :
    "I chose the name Nightbird for my new design. While this guitar looks like a relatively conservative solidbody, it is in fact radically different in construction from virtually anything that had preceded it. The back is routed hollow, except under the pickups and the stop tailpiece, to reduce feedback and provide a solid anchor for the tailpiece. The rest, including under the bridge, is hollow. The top is constructed of spruce, carved on the outside but flat on the inside."

    George also mentions introducing the snakehead headstock in '84, on the acoustics Guild asked him to design before he became a shareholder, in that article.
    Al
    "Time May Change the Technique of Music But Never Its Mission " - Rachmaninoff
    My 1st Guild: '96 Westerly D25NT "Hally" (10-31-96 stamped on heelblock)
    #2: '01 Westerly F65ce "Blondie"
    #3: '03 Corona D40e Richie Havens "Richie"
    All bought new!

  6. #6
    Senior Member walrus's Avatar
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    If you don't want to have to plug in, Taylor makes nylon string acoustic guitars with a 1 7/8 neck width:

    https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitar...?specialty=207

    walrus
    1984 Guild D64
    2008 PRS Hollowbody Spruce

  7. #7
    Senior Member adorshki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by walrus View Post
    If you don't want to have to plug in, Taylor makes nylon string acoustic guitars with a 1 7/8 neck width:

    https://www.taylorguitars.com/guitar...?specialty=207

    walrus
    Yeah the Dykes is a whopping 1.9" vs 1.875" on the Taylor......assuming the Guild spec wasn't rounded up...and was consistent...

    (OK joking aside as a New Hartford build it probably was consistent but don't know if it was simply rounded up to the nearest 10th)

    When I mentioned right hand tasks ealier it wasn't a typo, it was reference to some classical techniques that will create a very wide range of travel on the strings, thus the need for extra clearance between 'em, and even on the fretboard close to the nut.
    Also enhances clean left hand-fretting, allows full 3-finger fretting of an "A" for example, and no worries about a finger unintentionally muting adjacent strings.

    Good point about what to look for if you don't want to have to plug in though!
    Last edited by adorshki; 11-15-2017 at 01:03 AM.
    Al
    "Time May Change the Technique of Music But Never Its Mission " - Rachmaninoff
    My 1st Guild: '96 Westerly D25NT "Hally" (10-31-96 stamped on heelblock)
    #2: '01 Westerly F65ce "Blondie"
    #3: '03 Corona D40e Richie Havens "Richie"
    All bought new!

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    Senior Member PittPastor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adorshki View Post
    Sheerly for the sake of stimulating grand repartee, what would be the point of nylon strings on anything other than a classical neck?
    As far as I can see, they basically wouldn't work.
    Y'need a certain amount of action height just to get the top driven and clean fretting without buzzing or muting, and a certain amount of nut width for the right hand tasks.
    I figure the reason classicals haven't evolved much in a couple of hundred years is that they already kind of hit their evolutionary peak, and the neck's an integral part of it.
    Bombast aside, am I missing something?
    In counter, I offer up that both Doyle Dykes and Chet Atkins seemed to like them...

    For me, I am having some hand issues right now. I'm wondering if Nylon strings might be better until whatever it is going on with my left thumb finally heals...

    (Oh, and the reason I wasn't looking at Classicals is that I have a Mark II Classical. If that's what I do, it's really easy, I just take the lil thing out of its case....)
    Last edited by PittPastor; 11-15-2017 at 01:32 AM.
    ----------------------------------
    1980 Guild D40C Sunburst
    1978 Guild Mark II Classical

    Soundcloud - Cat's In The Crade (D40C)

  9. #9
    fallacy that nylon strings are easier to play...they're pretty high tension...action usually higher...you're better off switching to silk and steel on a guitar you have and possibly tuning down a step, say to D standard.

    With the wider fretboard you're going to have to drop your thumb lower on the back of the neck to be able to reach the wider string spacing and likely longer scale than you're accustomed to playing...suggest you go into a music store and try playing one to see for yourself.

    Doyle can play any guitar, any scale...I've seen him do it...and I played his nylon string proto at NAMM...the fretboard was too wide for my hands...lovely instrument, tho.

  10. #10
    Senior Member adorshki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PittPastor View Post
    In counter, I offer up that both Doyle Dykes and Chet Atkins seemed to like them...
    I think you're just saying that both Mr Dykes and Mr Atkins seemed to like classical guitars "generically"? Sure, seems to be a fair assessment.
    Not sure if I was misinterpreted but I was only trying to say I don't think nylons would work on the narrow necks typically found on steel string flattops.
    Given the right neck the body could be varied according to individual tastes, although I suspect again that a certain range of sizes will be found to be best for optimizing sound.
    Got a suspicion that it'd be hard to get nylons to drive a full-size dreadnought top to a satisfying level no matter how it was braced or how thin it was, for example..

    Quote Originally Posted by PittPastor View Post
    For me, I am having some hand issues right now. I'm wondering if Nylon strings might be better until whatever it is going on with my left thumb finally heals...
    OK, are you diagnosed with a definitive disorder or just hoping it's some kind of repetitive stress that will cure itself if the stress is reduced?
    If the latter, I always advise people to look at their frethand technique.
    One of the reasons I'm so adamant about using classical playing posture and fretting technique is because it's intended to put the least possible stress on the fretting hand.
    Grabbing the neck like a baseball bat or the old "thumb over the fretboard" puts excess stress on the thumb's tendons and actually inhibits the range of motion of the fretting fingers.
    The classical position mandates thumb perpendicular to back of neck, opposing the middle finger as perfectly as possible.
    Touch tip of your thumb to the tip of your middle finger and make a perfect "O".
    Then put the guitar neck between the fingers.
    That should make issues about neck width irrelevant, on a classical.
    Otherwise, I'd suggest going to silk'n'steel .010-.047 and even then tuning down a whole step.
    You'll lose an appreciable amount of volume on a dreadnought but the string tension should be quite manageable.
    But I still advocate the classical fretting position in all practical fretboard locations.
    It should lower stress on your thumb tendons.
    EDIT: I see Jane says the same thing.
    And I was pleasantly surprised myself a couple of weeks ago when I decided to experimentally lower the tension on my F65ce a full step, on another member's suggestion.
    It does take the .010 extra lights but I don't have the silk cores on that guitar, and I swear I think the guitar was actually louder.
    Like the top was actually too tight at regular standard pitch.
    And it was a whole lot more fun to play!.
    I think I'm gonna keep it that way from here on out.
    So keep an open mind about lowered tension, especially if there's an added therapeutic benefit desired.
    ONE more EDIT:
    Forgive me if all that classical technique theory was already known to you, I'd forgotten you actually already have a classical to work with!
    Last edited by adorshki; 11-15-2017 at 01:42 AM.
    Al
    "Time May Change the Technique of Music But Never Its Mission " - Rachmaninoff
    My 1st Guild: '96 Westerly D25NT "Hally" (10-31-96 stamped on heelblock)
    #2: '01 Westerly F65ce "Blondie"
    #3: '03 Corona D40e Richie Havens "Richie"
    All bought new!

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