Songbird conversion

swiveltung

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The offboard Fishman Pre amp works well with the humbucker, so I imagine the onboard one would too...?
 

adorshki

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The offboard Fishman Pre amp works well with the humbucker, so I imagine the onboard one would too...?
I'm assuming you want to wire both to a switch and then connect that to the onboard pre-amp?
I don't think the onboard pre-amp will "like" the signal from the humbucker (the impedance issue), but if your offboard preamp is the same model as what's in the guitar then I can't see why it would be a problem.
I have one of the later versions of the Fishman in my F65ce and I think it's only designed to work with impedance of UST's (and the soundhole mic) but not regular p-ups.
But not being a true electric guy I could be just dead wrong about all that.
 
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Nuuska

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Hello

If you ONLY want to switch between the original system and piezo at output it is straightworfard - add the switch - wire preamp output to one side and humbucker on one side and the center to output jack.

If you wish to have the guitar electronics affect the humbucker, too - you probably must attenuate the output of humbucker with series resistor, or series resistor plus drain resistor. This is fairly easy and the benefit is that the humbucker now "sees" higher impedance thus being brighter.

For the latter the connection is humbucker to series resistor - series resistor to one side of the switch - shunt resistor from the switch to ground - piezo on other end. That´s it. Unfortunately I can not tell you the values of the resistors without trying it with my Songbird - and I have no intention to do so - but since you have that nice assembly in the soundhole, which is where I suppose you plan to mount the switch, there is a fairly easy shortcut. All you have to lose are few bucks, little time and two holes in your new soundhole cover. ( If you drill elsewhere - then that´s how it will be )

But anyway - take a volume pot of 250k - 500k - 1M - anything round there will do. Wire the humbucker to top of that - other end to ground - the center viper to one end of the switch. Piezo to other end - center to preamp input, where piezo was originally. My Songbird has a block with screw contacts, so all will be reversible. Just make notes how it was before you start pulling cables out. Be sure to use a two-way switch. So one or the other. Parallel will not work, since the output impedance of the humbucker is low enough to load your piezo so it will not sound good. Nothing will go kaputt, but it is no good.

Have fun.


p.s. Adorshki was writing faster than I was - but the input impedance is no issue in this case - the higher te input impedance, the merrier. But the humbucker will produce way more LEVEL than piezo - hence the attenuator.
 
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swiveltung

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As mentioned up top, the offboard Fishman works with the Humbucker. You are right it's hot but not alarmingly so. It's a tough situation as I would like tone and volume control. I am avoiding any holes in the guitar. I bought an optical volume pedal but like most volume pedals it makes the sound a bit anti-dynamic when not wide open. Right now Ihave the little wafer controls wired in and they work, but have a huge jump in control in the pot sweep.... and of course are kind of pasted on with velcro.
I was really just curious about using a switch, and any effect on the piezo, not positive I would do it. If I really get into using the Songbird as a hollow electric I may remove the preamp and put a tone vol pot in it's place saving the preamp to keep the guitar "whole" in the future. I have 4 Guild acoustics so... :>)
 

swiveltung

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Continuing the saga. Was considering picking up an archtop for some songs in the duo. This Songbird conversion lacked the sound I was wanting with Humbuckers or even a Lace Sensor dual bucker. . On a whim yesterday I put in a Strat single coil in... Finally got the deep but clear tone I've been searching for! Whodathunkit? Gonna try a gig soon.
 

Nuuska

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Hello

Progress is great - keep us informed - if I come up with anything with my two Songbirds, I´ll sure let you know.
 

swiveltung

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... and the drama continues..
so I made this tone/volume control that plugs right into the end pin jack and the cable plugs into it. That way no holes in the guitar etc. Pretty much just like if the controls were mounted in the guitar top. Standard one pickup Seymour wiring. Testing it I noticed it's not near as loud as just plugged into the amp direct. I mean a big difference. But it works, just have to turn the amp to maybe 5 from 3 for equal volume. Both pots on the control are dimed.

Just surprised me how significant a difference it is is all.
 
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