Not so fast...we have a problem with my M-20...unbelievable!

Kitarkus

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I've been playing this guitar for the better part of yesterday/today and only now noticed that the neck heel has been broken and repaired. It wasn't like this before and thus is apparent that the luthier broke the neck heel when he was removing for the neck reset. Luthier did not disclose this to me and gladly accepted my full payment for repairs. Ya...my eyes aren't as good as they used to be...but to the naked eye it is nearly invisible. Using a macro lens and flash...it looks bad. The guitar is an absolute joy to play and sounds great. What would you do?
S7SWQEN.jpg
 

gilded

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Kitarkus,

Your guitar is significantly devalued, maybe by a third. The guy should have told you, too. BUT:

1) Some necks are hard to steam-out, especially most Guilds and some Gibsons from the early '50s. Martins are usually pretty easy necks to steam off, by the way, because the dovetail slots are consistently in the same place, so Techs know where to stick the steam needles. Not so with Guilds. They are always a surprise. Even knowledgable luthiers can screw Guilds up.

2) My luthier split a side on an early '50s Gibson SJ because the neck would not pop out easily. The owner told him that it was okay, then came back later and demanded $700 in repayment. The luthier paid him back, but never worked on the owner's guitars again.

The owner even told me, "Hey, ....... wont work on my guitars anymore! How come?"

Me: "Because you made him pay $700."

Owner: "But I want him to work on my guitars!"

Me: "You should have thought of that before you made him pay. Everybody told you not to do it."

So, if you want to use the same repair guy again, you ought to think about what you really want to do. I'm not saying you should use him again, but if you do, think about it. If you like him, maybe he owes you a big credit on other repairs?

Other folks will be along soon, good luck.
 
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richardp69

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I'm with Gilded. If you love the guitar and the repair is solid and you didn't buy to flip for a profit, then maybe the best thing to do is to just accept it. However, I would for sure make/ask the Luthier to take care of you on future repairs.

If he in fact did damage the guitar, and knew he did so, it shows a lack of character and honest, two traits I personally put a lot of stock in.
 

Kitarkus

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Thanks Gilded...good advice. I'd already and quickly come to the conclusion that I would never use this Luthier again. On general principle. It is one thing to have an accident. I get it...delicate work...wood instruments. It is ENTIRELY something else to fail to disclose this to me! Fool me once shame on you...fool me twice shame on me. I'm done with this guy. He had absolutely every opportunity to let me know what had happened and have an adult discussion. Instead....he did the absolute best job he could to hide it from me long enough to get my money.

Richardp69....exactly. I could not leave other instruments with this man for repairs after this failure to disclose here. I'd be mildly upset if he'd had an accident with the guitar during repair. I'm absolutely pissed off that he covered it up and didn't discuss it with me. The option of using future credit for repairs is a non option. I have no trust/faith in him...he may be a good luthier but has no credibility. His repair credit would be useless to me. It isn't that he broke the neck that is the big problem....its that he didn't tell me that he broke the neck and thus offered me no solutions!
 
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gilded

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If you paid with credit card, you can suspend the payment. He owes you, period.

If you have a hearing on it, he's gonna say it was like that, so get a letter from your doctor about your eye problems and send it to both sides prior to the hearing. Also, have another tech look at it and say it was a fresh crack, etc.

Where do you live?

Is this the Authorized Martin Repairman, by the way? Now you know how much that is worth. Complain to Martin, maybe.
 
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Kitarkus

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If you paid with credit card, you can suspend the payment. He owes you, period.

If you have a hearing on it, he's gonna say it was like that, so get a letter from your doctor about your eye problems and send it to both sides prior to the hearing. Also, have another tech look at it and say it was a fresh crack, etc.

Where do you live?

Is this the Authorized Martin Repairman, by the way? Now you know how much that is worth. Complain to Martin, maybe.

Well...I have a lot of photos from prior to dropping the guitar off to him and I posted many of them here. I recvd. the guitar on Dec. 7th at 8-9am....and I dropped the guitar to his shop the same afternoon on December 7th. I have a printout of the Reverb listing which reports and exhibits a guitar in excellent cosmetic condition but in need of a neck reset. I have the repair quote, receipt for my cash payment, and my claim ticket. Given the nature of the fracture....one can easily observe that it has been mended and cosmetically hidden....and I just had the neck reset this week (as written on the work order). There was no repair ordered or charged for the repair, mending, or touch up of a broken neck. He did that all by himself and for free! If there is any visual doubt about recent work in that specific area....one could simply place their nose there and get high from the fumes still emanating.

Yes...this is the ONLY Martin Authorized Repair shop in the Kansas City Metroplex. I intend to give him every opportunity to make this 'right'. I never intend to allow him to work on any guitar of mine again thus I have no issues with dealing directly to this problem. In the event that he will not come to some amicable agreement with me, I intend to explore other avenues to regain a value similar to my estimated loss (the cost of the repairs). If I am forced to explore other avenues...I will not be shy about sharing my experience with as many guitar owners and shops as possible. It may seem that I am being an a$$hole here....but had he informed me of the break and worked with me to arrive at some agreeable outcome....I would have understood. This guy flat out put lipstick on a break and passed it off...in hindsight he stood there and said "looky here...looky there"....basically looky anywhere but at the break! The photo looks bad...in person...it is damn hard to see it at all....damn hard. I'm real clear about what has happened here.....he had an accident....and rather than tell me about it and work something out.....he purposefully duped me. There isn't a shred of doubt about it. That's not the type of person that I do business with....any type of business. Watch...next he'll tell me that a neck heel break...once repaired...is no biggie.

Let's be clear here. I have no problem discussing this in an online forum....because I would never...and I mean NEVER....sell a guitar without disclosing its material defects (if any). Herein lies the problem....the guitar is far less valuable and marketable than it had been. This shop knew darn well that I was vested...both financially and emotionally to this guitar...we had a long talk at dropoff...and I asked a lot of questions prior to leaving it with him. He just is not an honest and credible guy...I know it...and I have pretty good timed documentation and photos substantiating it.
 
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txbumper57

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I hope it all works out for you Kitarkus. I know some folks give me a hard time about eagle eyeing every guitar I am interested in or asked to look at and going over them with a fine tooth comb but this is one of the reasons I do it. After looking at so many over the years you keep a mental record of where things can go wrong. I also eagle eye every repair I have done just to make sure they are all right. I am really lucky to have the luthier I have for if there is an issue he just calls me immediately and we agree on a course of action. Yes accidents do happen but he should have called you the minute it happened instead of trying to pass it off. Documentation is everything and I completely agree this person needs to reimburse you for the repair swept under the rug. Best of luck in a bad situation my friend.

TX
 

Kitarkus

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I hope it all works out for you Kitarkus. I know some folks give me a hard time about eagle eyeing every guitar I am interested in or asked to look at and going over them with a fine tooth comb but this is one of the reasons I do it. After looking at so many over the years you keep a mental record of where things can go wrong. I also eagle eye every repair I have done just to make sure they are all right. I am really lucky to have the luthier I have for if there is an issue he just calls me immediately and we agree on a course of action. Yes accidents do happen but he should have called you the minute it happened instead of trying to pass it off. Documentation is everything and I completely agree this person needs to reimburse you for the repair swept under the rug. Best of luck in a bad situation my friend.

TX

Thx Tx...I'm mad at myself for not having seen it. Sitting here now....it is really hard to see without a spotlight. I'm furious. I hope its a 'keeper'....because regardless...its a 'keeper' now.
 

mavuser

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get in touch with the original seller u bought it from, get every piece of documentation and photos u can from them.

just, brutal. i am so sorry bro. you'll get it worked out one way or another.

freeze/investigation on the credit card

small claims court

contact Martin, file a written report with them

file a police report. drive to the store, call the police from the parking lot. have them meet u there and fill out a police report at the scene of the crime (yes u are a victim and the luthier is a criminal).

I have other thoughts, lets see if u wind up keeping the guitar first. best of luck. you'll figure it out.
 

Rayk

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Wow that stinks . For me the first thing he should have done was call you up , no if ands or but’s .

If you have pics use it to either give you one heck of a discount or buy the guitar .

I can’t forgive a lack of professionalism unless he had a helper do the work .

Was there a disclaimer in paperwork for damage ?

Anyway hope it works out for you .
 

Kitarkus

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get in touch with the original seller u bought it from, get every piece of documentation and photos u can from them.

just, brutal. i am so sorry bro. you'll get it worked out one way or another.

freeze/investigation on the credit card

small claims court

contact Martin, file a written report with them

file a police report. drive to the store, call the police from the parking lot. have them meet u there and fill out a police report at the scene of the crime (yes u are a victim and the luthier is a criminal).

I have other thoughts, lets see if u wind up keeping the guitar first. best of luck. you'll figure it out.

I paid cash...he gave me a $65 discount for cash :)

Here is how I see this. I sent him an email which lets him know I'm pretty serious. I also left him a voice mail today. I have his work order which includes all work done on the guitar.....and fixing a neck heel break is not among the repairs. The neck heel has been recently and expertly repaired. How do you explain that? He just happened to remove the entire neck from the guitar for the reset.....in one piece....and when he re-attached the neck....the heel block remains as it appears today...with a break and expertly repaired break? Case closed. He charged me to repair the small crack across the bottom strap button hole as stated on invoice...?... but he didn't charge me to repair the neck heel break? I'd like to see the judge's face should he try to explain that away. "Um yes judge...I decided to do that repair for free".

If he doesn't play ball with me...I have every intention of taking him to small claims court. This is not a police matter...this is a civil matter. If he ends up angering me further....I will be on the phone with Martin so fast it'll make his head spin. I will also call every (there aren't that many...and I know them all) guitar shop that uses him to relay my problem.....with documentation. This really isn't even about the money for me at this point...I'm just pissed off and I don't like to be toyed with. I have no problems spending a bit more of my time and money to see that he thinks twice about doing this to someone else. It would be unfortunate....but if forced...I'll have no problems letting everyone that he does business with know that he is not an honest or credible repair shop. Last...if necessary....I'll call the other Authorized Martin Repair shop....in Lawrence, KS 45 minutes away.....they already seem to have a low impression of the repair shop that I'd taken my guitar to (I'd thought bias as they are in competition for repairs somewhat)...to let them know how my repair went. I had a phone quote from them for my repair too..and it was much much higher....silly me for not going that route.
 
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mavuser

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print out all the "sold" listings from ebay and reverb.

good luck man.
 

F30

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So sorry to hear about the unfortunate repair 'damage'.
I really don't understand why this was not disclosed to you.
Things happen even with the best intentions but to simply not mention it - is totally wrong.
On a brighter note - it appears the result from the neck set made the guitar play much better.
On a sad note - not fixing it - the guitar would be worth more.
It's a gamble for sure.

Here's what I don't get is why is the repair including the finish work not smooth and flush.
The right lutherie could have and still can air brush a slight tint at the heal/ or entire neck after completely smoothing the area flush and make that so much less apparent.
I hope you find a solution that lets you feel better about this.

I can say that none of my guitars or amps are perfect.
They get used and stuff happens even when you are trying to be careful.
It just hurts more when it wasn't you that made those battle scars.

I really hope you find a resolve of some kind.
 

Kitarkus

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Here's what I don't get is why is the repair including the finish work not smooth and flush.
The right lutherie could have and still can air brush a slight tint at the heal/ or entire neck after completely smoothing the area flush and make that so much less apparent.
I hope you find a solution that lets you feel better about this.

I'm telling you...that photo looks ugly. If you were here...in person...it is very nearly undetectable...seriously. It isn't my eyes....I don't wear glasses and have reasonably good vision. I didn't. see. it. at. all. It took me 24 hours with the guitar to notice it. Had I broken that neck myself and took it to him to be repaired...I'd think his work was remarkable. I thought I noticed a hairline crack of some type...I wasn't even certain myself...until i used a macro lens and flash. Only then did steam come out of my ears and my head nearly popped off.
 

tommym

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I am still trying to understand how you break a neck heel into three pieces, even if it's a Guild or Gibson style neck heel? Unless it was damaged while it was off of the neck in a bar fight?

Tommy
 

Kitarkus

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Here are a couple of more photos. I can't be certain whether now that I've seen it...it is so obvious....or whether his finish work has settled a bit and has become more obvious.
These photos are with a lamp....no macro....no flash. Even these now seem obvious to me. It's hard to get a decent photo without a flash.

ddreqwd.jpg

XdcYKRd.jpg
 

Rayk

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I’d like see before hand pics where are they
If I may ask ?
 

Kitarkus

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I’d like see before hand pics where are they
If I may ask ?

I didn't take a close-up of the neck heel. I took about 20 photos on Dec. 7th AM. These are the closest to the neck heel that I got. Silly me for not taking a closeup of every detail I s'pose. Like I said, how does he explain not charging me for repairing a neck break on the itemized receipt for repairs?
y3337Eo.jpg


8bpvnin.jpg
 

Kitarkus

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Here are two more....they are timestamped 9:57am on Dec. 7th. My drop off receipt states "Dec. 7" from the shop. Some of these ... as I recall....I had posted here on the morning of December 7th.

8KhJQ1c.jpg




5sSqmPU.jpg
 
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Kitarkus

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And this one also from Dec. 7. I posted a thread on december 7th with these and other photos in my excitement...it was a flickr link.

tE6ivlo.jpg
 
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