about to buy a F-412 12str blonde (2010): question about the native pre amp

Hi everybody,

I'm from italy, I was looking for a 12 strings guitar and I tried many. Once I played the F-412 I fell in love with it, immediately.
Now, in my country is really hard to find such an instrument, I don't know why this brand isn't as famous as Gibson and others, but the fact is that I found this amazing guitar in a shop and I don't want to miss this chance.
Its sound more than I was looking for, BUT, once I played the guitar on a PA I was shocked, the amplified sound is very far from the natural one.
I played many guitars and usually the gap isn't so big. I and the shop owner made every possible test, but no way...
I was told that this is the way that guitar sounds like, once connected to a PA. Honestly I can't believe that such a great guitar can have such a different sound once amplified.
QUESTION: is this maybe a characteristic of guid guitars? are you used to buy them and then to change the pre amp to make it a complete instrument?

I'm in a rush to take a decision, because I'm really afraid that someone could buy it.
I looked for info on internet, but I'm not satisfied with what I found, so that's why I'm asking this question here.

`the guitar was also "damaged", the past owner had an "original way" to play I guess, because the lowe part of the central hole kind of doesn't exist any longer, he hit it whit the plettro 1 bilion times I suppose.. this is the other thing which I don't like of that guitar.
I'm sure that I'll buy a guid 12 strings, because it sounds amazing, but I can't buy a new one because of the price.

So, it would be great if you could tell me someting abuot the preamp... and/or give me eventually a suggestion on where I could but this incredible instrument.

thank you in advance!!
marco

Marco,

First, welcome to LTG. A New Hartford F-412 is an instrument to be treasured. Congratulations.

Amplification is a very interesting and complicated subject. Your 2010 Guild probably came with the D-TAR Wavelength pickup system installed (if it was factory electronics, that is). This is a good piezo-electric under-saddle-transducer system, but not nearly as natural sounding as the D-TAR Multi-Source system which Guild started using a little later on. The piezo UST is very reliable but not all that natural sounding to my ears. The Multi-Source system has the UST but adds a condenser microphone on the printed circuit board that goes in the soundhole. In fact, the D-TAR Multi-Source sounds amazing (to my ears).

I hope this helps. You will probably need to do research to decide what amplification system you want to replace your D-TAR Wavelength with. First of all, do check the batteries on what you have.

Oh, for the record, I wouldn't hold off on buying an F-412 because you don't like the electronics. That can be fixed relatively easily. More important is how you like the guitar acoustically and what shape it is in. The damaged soundhole probably shouldn't affect the guitar, but make sure it hasn't damaged the braces internally either. If you have access to a luthier/tech, you might want to have the guitar inspected.

Hi, thank you very much for your promot reply!! Well, i didn’t think about the batteries, i’ll ask the at the shop if they considered this issue. They told me I could replace the preamp with a fishman one. Do you know which one could be the best for the f 412? ..and if it possible to buy it somewhere...
the current one is really poor of bass and mid range freq.

As for the soundhole i’d like to post a picture, i’ll figure out how.

do you know how i could understand which model year this guitar is? the serial n. is NQ241007.

would it be very hard to buy such a guitar in US?

ciao e grazie!!!
marco

Hi,

thank you very much for the prompt reply!
I’ll ask at the shop about the batteries, maybe this could be the reason.
Bass and bass/medium range frequences are too low, the output is really bad. It sound like a very low budget pre amp.
I don’t know which version of the pre amp since I don’t know the model year of the guitar.
Would you be able to recognize it from the serial number?
NQ241007

would it be possible to upgrade the pre amp system with the latest version? this means to find all the staff and the instruction to mount it..

from the following pics you can see the volum knob and also the demaged soundhole.

question number 3: what about buying that guitar in US? is it really hard?

thank you again!

pics

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k...6-347D-4950-A6B2-BA378883E5C0_zpspnookslr.jpg


http://s86.photobucket.com/user/mar...F-48B2-95A0-6B26FABF22C3_zpswwmhs2xg.jpg.html


http://s86.photobucket.com/user/mar...1-4604-8DBD-3965B3E4AC15_zpssjlc0asr.jpg.html

Hi, Marco,

Your first few posts are moderated to make sure you're not a bot or other nefarious creature. Afterwards your posts will appear immediately. Please be aware this is both a Sunday and a holiday Eve...Christmas...in the US...I'm sure you'll be receiving a lot of help soon.

For confirmation of the date of the guitar, our expert Hans Moust, who wrote the book on Guilds, and is located in the Netherlands, may see this post and reply or you can contact him at his website...the information is available in his profile on this site...his English is fine if you don't speak his language.

The soundhole damage as pictured is not so bad...merely cosmetic from the pictures...not likely structural...as you say the guitar is hard to find in your country, if the price is within your budget...that is not a reason not to buy it if you like it...neither is the preamp an issue...any electronics can be changed out to anything that you prefer...for your own peace of mind, if you have a luthier or tech who can examine it for you prior to purchase, it might help.

Many guitars are available in the US...but the cost of shipping and your own country's import taxes might negate any savings.

Welcome to the forum. Good luck.

You might find this post, and others by Chris, of interest: http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?195028-My-F-512-Gets-a-New-Pickup-for-Christmas

Regarding the details of manufacturing. N is New Hartford, and the year, Q, is 2013. Your guitar was finished on the 241st day of the year (29-August-2013, based on the Julian calendar), and it was the 7th guitar that was finished that day.

wow, these details are so impressive!! i’m really surprised.
thank you!!!!
so the pre amp should be the latest version, shouldn’t it?

Hi,

I do thank all of you for your kind replies!!

you are right, the damage isn’t structural...yet, but now the thikness of the soundhole is less 1mm there, I can’t explain myself how the previous owner could do something like this by strumming.
I’m in love with the sound of that guitar, but that isn’t a simple scratch, the soundhole edge it’s kind of “eaten” and there’s no way to fix the wood once it is so thin.
So I was asking myself if I could by another one somewhere else. You are right when you say that shipment from US + taxes on top will make the purchase expensive.
I’ll try to ask Hans as tou suggested.

As for the pre amp, I now believe that I’ll find a way to sort it out anyway.

I hope I’ll be able to take a decision soon, otherwise someone will decide for me.

merry xmas from italy (buon natale)

You have to figure out if the Preamp in the guitar is the stock one, or one added after it was made. I think the Dtar system used 18volts, which would be two 9 volt batteries.

Hi JohnW63,

do you think that checking the following pic you could confirm that the preamp version is the one you mentioned?

http://s86.photobucket.com/user/mar...9-43F6-8CDA-E470D1ADEA03_zpsawx9w9st.jpg.html

thank you and MERRY XMAS!!

treving said:

do you think that checking the following pic you could confirm that the preamp version is the one you mentioned?

Click to expand...

Ciao Marco, Buon Natale!
The shown control knobs in white do not look like original Guild parts. So I believe the guitar has an aftermarket pickup system installed. The white control plate looks like a LR Baggs Anthem acoustic pickup installed.
Ralf

Ah, Marco, that definitely is not the factory D-TAR electronics package.

Best wishes!

And, by the way, the pick damage to the soundhole looks to me non-structural (can't be sure), and while you should get a reduced price for the guitar because of it, I think you will be very happy with that. You might talk to a luthier when you get it to replace the electronics and put some lacquer on the soundhole.

As others have said, that’s just typical pick wear from a well played guitar. Nothing structural, not even wood damage really, just some finish wear.

treving said:

....I'm sure that I'll buy a guid 12 strings, because it sounds amazing, but I can't buy a new one because of the price....

Click to expand...

Plus the fact that Guild is just now producing new guitars again (no 12-strings yet) since moving from New Hartford, CT to Oxnard, CA. But the New Hartford-made F-412 and F-512 are indeed the cream of the crop. Also very creamy are the Tacoma-made, Corona-made, and Westerly-made models, which sometimes even change names, but for the most part they all retain that very high Guild quality. Then there's the JF30-12, which is much like an F-412, but with less bling. (See mine below, for example, Corona-made. ride: ) You may just have to hunt around your region awhile to find an F-412 in excellent condition, if you'd really prefer it. They're not really super-abundant in the U.S., especially the F-512, so you may just have to stay on the hunt with your eyes open for a while. That's part of the fun, isn't it?

It looks to be an aftermarket LR Baggs pickup system, as previously stated. AND I do not believe they sound that great on a maple 12 string. The sound hole is mostly cosmetic, the wood does look a little thin, but intact, someone played VERY hard many times on that nice guitar! Luckily they didn’t keep it any longer or they may have eventually tore it up! How do the frets look?

If you like the sound and playability of it acoustically, make him an offer! You can always change the pickup to suit your style and preference! And a good luthier can make the soundhold look a little better.

thank you, all of replies are really interesting, I’m surprised!

Thanks to your texts I now know that

1) the damage can be fixed aesthetically
2) the pre amp isn’t original and can be replaced with a better one

If I were in the US I could maybe negotiate a little pulling down the price, but I asked even Hans Moust if he knows about shops or private owners who could be trying to sell that guitar in europe, but it looks like there’s nothing availabe by now.
So I’m not sure that I can convince the shop to give it to me for a lower price.

It’s 1690€ = 2000$

My idea would be now to go there and buy it. But before to do it I’ll ask the following question: do you know if someone is selling this model in your country and for how much?
I know that the shipment will cost me money + taxes as someone of you already highlighted, but .. at least the guitar could be in better conditions..
Or do you think I’m just wasting time in questions?

ciao!!
thank you for your preciuos support!
marco