Early Guild M20 - price, serial number, date, and comparison to new US made M-20?

jedzep

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BTW...when I was babbling about my '57, which is doing just fine thanks, I did email (bother) Hans with the question of 1st year of the M20. I recall the answer being 1957. Naturally, I would hope that's the case, being the owner of one.

A few good looking pre-'65 M20s have been popping up on Ebay and Reverb in the 1,000-1,300 dollar range. Maybe you'll get the same playing satisfaction from a less than museum quality version. I get it though, to see and play it in top shape at top dollar, makes it a once in a lifetime opportunity. If you have the discipline to dedicate a monthly payment you could consider acquiring a credit card with a 3K line and a low intro rate, paying it off and dumping the card.

Special guitars cause dangerous thoughts. Maybe sell a kidney. Wonder if it's still sitting in the back room of the store a year later.
 
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mavuser

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Rather that create a new thread, I may as well ask here:
I've played an older (late 50s) M-20 recently that was in lamentable shape, but flaws aside, I noticed the neck had a somewhat awkward girth to it compared to some of the 60s models I'd played. It also looked, at first glance, like the heel was flush with the back of the body (as pictured below). Is there a time period where the neck girth and construction changed, and does the older neck construction pose further problems with resets?
1962-Guild-M-20-Acoustic-Natural-Guitar-wHSC-USA-263716275480-9.JPG

that is a one-piece back (thus, includes the “heel cap”). seen on M-20s into the early 60s. with a two-piece back (what we typically see the past 50+ years), you would need an actual heel cap.
 
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That integrated heel cap is the same as my '59 M-30. I've always suspected that the back was a single piece, since I can't see a seam inside or out. Big piece of mahogany on the M-30, though.
 

[J.K.]

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Sorry to keep bumping this, but... is there any other differences between the ghost label and mid-60s models? I've seen some listings put the ghost labels as having a 4" body depth, and later models as being 4 1/16" deep. Considering the difference in the single-piece back/integrated heel joint change that seemed to happen in the early 60s, is there anything else to be aware of? And, for that matter, is there any sound difference between the variations on the models?
I'm still trying to track one down for a reasonable price that doesn't require too many repairs. I've come across a couple I've been interested in, both of which had been sitting in stock for a while at a couple small chain stores, but they both sold within 2 days of me finding out about them. Rotten luck, I guess.

Interesting aside: I just saw the original M-20 (serial number #1003) from the first post in this thread from last year, and it was listed on Reverb a couple weeks ago. They said they "just got it in," but it sounded like the same store and everything. I tried to see how steadfast they were on the price, but once I got in touch with the manager, they pulled the listing. C'est la vie.
 

mavuser

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Sorry to keep bumping this, but... is there any other differences between the ghost label and mid-60s models? I've seen some listings put the ghost labels as having a 4" body depth, and later models as being 4 1/16" deep. Considering the difference in the single-piece back/integrated heel joint change that seemed to happen in the early 60s, is there anything else to be aware of? And, for that matter, is there any sound difference between the variations on the models?
I'm still trying to track one down for a reasonable price that doesn't require too many repairs. I've come across a couple I've been interested in, both of which had been sitting in stock for a while at a couple small chain stores, but they both sold within 2 days of me finding out about them. Rotten luck, I guess.

Interesting aside: I just saw the original M-20 (serial number #1003) from the first post in this thread from last year, and it was listed on Reverb a couple weeks ago. They said they "just got it in," but it sounded like the same store and everything. I tried to see how steadfast they were on the price, but once I got in touch with the manager, they pulled the listing. C'est la vie.


the variation in body depth could be instrument to instrument, and one from the 50s and 60s could be identical. the variations were not due to changes over the years necessarily. a 1/16” variation could be found on 2 Guilds the same model built on the same day.

the M-20s are out there. where are u located geographically?
 

Cougar

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...Interesting aside: I just saw the original M-20 (serial number #1003) from the first post in this thread from last year...

I just noticed this is a year-old thread. Jeez, the price on that little guitar is crazy! Vintage, schmintage! Reality check: that mint condition Doyle Dykes model out of New Hartford is $2200. I have nothing more to say!
 

AcornHouse

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that is a one-piece back (thus, includes the “heel cap”). seen on M-20s into the early 60s. with a two-piece back (what we typically see the past 50+ years), you would need an actual heel cap.
No, you can do an integrated heel cap with a two-piece back. It is very typical in classical guitars. I’ve just done it myself.
This is a bookmatched back.

img_2911.jpg
 

[J.K.]

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the variation in body depth could be instrument to instrument, and one from the 50s and 60s could be identical. the variations were not due to changes over the years necessarily. a 1/16” variation could be found on 2 Guilds the same model built on the same day.
the M-20s are out there. where are u located geographically?
I suspected there may be some usual random variation as well, but I was looking at archived models that some shops had sold on various sites, and it seemed like the models all got that extra 1.5mm-ish boost after they started using the separate heel caps. I'd wager some other non-cosmetic changes happened in the 60s as production ramped up as well, but I have no real basis for that assumption.

I'm in Austin, TX. There's a real wealth of good, vintage guitars circulating around here, but I can't recall seeing many Guilds, other than the occasional old Starfire (which is an inevitability for a later date). There's still a bit of an unnecessary premium around here when it comes to vintage guitars, but nowhere near the chump tax I often see from NY sellers.
 

jedzep

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Not sure you can pin New Yorkers for overpricing. I shop pretty constantly for vintage acoustics encountering a wide swath of sellers who must not know anything about market price ranges. I have a fine, first year M20, with typical wear that took a year and a half to find. It cost me around $900, but I still had to wade through the waters of overpricing from all corners of the country.
 

[J.K.]

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Not sure you can pin New Yorkers for overpricing.
Yeah, I was being hyperbolic... partially. Though I will say that shops that are in areas in the city with reasonable foot traffic like Manhattan and Brooklyn definitely price their guitars with the knowledge that they have a higher possibility of catching the interest of tourists with money compared to some landlocked city. Especially considering the way the cost of living can scale the relative cost of other commodities. I grew up in the midwest and still remember debating whether or not to pony up $500 for a Silverface Twin in college a decade ago.
But hey, I don't blame the player; I blame the game.
 
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