Gibson not attending NAMM 2018

davismanLV

Venerated Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
19,200
Reaction score
11,826
Location
U.S.A. : Nevada : Las Vegas
Guild Total
2
Any reason they can't do both? Different markets and all, you know? Maybe they're so strapped they can only do ONE show per year? YIKES!!
 

Stuball48

Senior Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Oct 22, 2017
Messages
4,736
Reaction score
2,534
Location
Dickson, TN
No surprise here. Live 35 miles west of Nashville and last five years Gibson has been "Big Hat No Cattle" IMHO.
 

twocorgis

Venerated Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
13,923
Reaction score
6,520
Location
Lawn Guyland
Guild Total
18
There's rumblings that Yamaha is going to take over Gibson's guitar business, and that almost has to be a huge improvement, really.
 

merlin6666

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
1,173
Reaction score
305
Location
Canada .... brrr
It sure is a weird corporate move from being a leader in the musical instrument business to being a struggling third rate competitor in consumer electronics.
 

walrus

Reverential Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Dec 23, 2006
Messages
23,957
Reaction score
8,020
Location
Massachusetts
It seems like a real bad strategic move, one wonders if any kind of long term plan for Gibson has been put together by their management. Based on this, the answer seems like a clear "no"...

Unless they are preparing for a buyout or some kind of dispersal of their business as you said, Sandy.

walrus
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,791
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
It sure is a weird corporate move from being a leader in the musical instrument business to being a struggling third rate competitor in consumer electronics.

IF I understand correctly, as part of Phillips, that's no 3rd-rate player in that biz:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philips#Audio_products

And hey, they're Dutch.... that can't be all bad, am I right?
:glee:

EDIT:
It appears I got that backwards. Gibson bought Philips' consumer electronics division.
https://andreweverard.com/2014/06/3...gibson-stable-woox-didnt-see-that-one-coming/
Nonetheless the Philips brand name carries huge weight in consumer electronics.
And that would make sense for this stated Gibson goal from that article:
"The Gibson name may be most associated with its business as a guitar-maker, founded in 1894, but Gibson Brands has an ambition to be ‘the global leader in music and sound’."
After reading their Wikipedia page , I got a sneaking suspicion there are other reasons besides the shrinking market that Gibson would be happy to exit the guitar manufacturing niche.
 
Last edited:

twocorgis

Venerated Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
13,923
Reaction score
6,520
Location
Lawn Guyland
Guild Total
18
Unless they are preparing for a buyout or some kind of dispersal of their business as you said, Sandy.

walrus

That seems to be the consensus amongst the cognoscenti. Also, Gibson discontinued the industry standard Cakewalk MIDI software with no warning, and that pissed off a lot of people.
 

merlin6666

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
1,173
Reaction score
305
Location
Canada .... brrr
IF I understand correctly, as part of Phillips, that's no 3rd-rate player in that biz:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philips#Audio_products

And hey, they're Dutch.... that can't be all bad, am I right?
:glee:

EDIT:
It appears I got that backwards. Gibson bought Philips' consumer electronics division.
https://andreweverard.com/2014/06/3...gibson-stable-woox-didnt-see-that-one-coming/
Nonetheless the Philips brand name carries huge weight in consumer electronics.
And that would make sense for this stated Gibson goal from that article:
"The Gibson name may be most associated with its business as a guitar-maker, founded in 1894, but Gibson Brands has an ambition to be ‘the global leader in music and sound’."
After reading their Wikipedia page , I got a sneaking suspicion there are other reasons besides the shrinking market that Gibson would be happy to exit the guitar manufacturing niche.

The consumer electronics part is actually headquartered in Hongkong, Philips spun it off because it wasn't doing well and already failed to sell a few years earlier (as documented in Wikipedia)

https://www.philips.com/a-w/about/news/archive/standard/news/press/2014/20140428-Philips-to-sell-WOOX-Innovations-to-Gibson-Brands.html
 

txbumper57

Enlightened Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
7,577
Reaction score
58
Location
Texas
No that this has anything to do with Gibson not showing up at NAMM This year but I was recently looking at a few of their Limited edition Acoustics like the "Doves in Flight" and the "SJ200 Limited" which are both heavily inlaid and offered in the beautiful "Viper Blue" Transparent finishes. I was blown away by the fact that these $6000-$7500 acoustics were sporting "Richlite" Finger Boards instead of solid wood. Apparently that is something that Gibson has gone to in recent years and while it may have it's merits it just seemed out of place on such a beautiful High end guitar. If this has been discussed previously I apologize as I am not a part of any Gibson forum nor regularly look for info on the brand itself. Here is the link to the two Gibsons I was referring to with the Richlite Fingerboards and I think Bridges as well.

Doves in Flight LTD Viper Blue Model

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gibson-Gib...558481?hash=item25d7dfcd51:g:FwoAAOSwjL5ZLl~N

s-l400.jpg


SJ200 LTD Viper Blue Model

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gibson-LTD...043335?hash=item284b8a3fc7:g:~CIAAOSwAQBZp7vr

s-l1600.jpg


After the recent sale of their Memphis factory and the subsequent fire sale of several Memphis made models at almost below cost prices through Chicago Music Exchange, I think the shift from NAMM to the Consumer Electronics Show sort of spells out the end of Gibson American guitar production as we know it. Hard to believe but I wonder if Gibson Guitars will even be in production by this time next year here in the states.

TX
 
Last edited:

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,791
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
I was blown away by the fact that these $6000-$7500 acoustics were sporting "Richlite" Finger Boards instead of solid wood. Apparently that is something that Gibson has gone to in recent years and while it may have it's merits it just seemed out of place on such a beautiful High end guitar.
I agree.
At that price I expect real wood.
Maybe because they lost about a half a million bucks between fines and seized fretboard material in raids back in '09 and '11?
From the aforementioned Wiki page:
"Gibson's factories were raided in 2009 and 2011 by agents of the United States Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS). In November 2009 authorities found illegally imported ebony wood from Madagascar.[26][27] A second raid was conducted in August 2011,[26] during which the FWS seized wood imports from India that had been mislabeled on the US Customs declaration.[28][29] Gibson Guitar Corp. filed a motion in January 2011 to recover seized materials and overturn the charges, which was denied by the court.[30][31]"
In a thread about the second raid long ago, the Indian wood was supposed to be illegal because it was milled to sizes ideal for fretboards, while Indian export rules for rosewood specifically defined different sizes being legal for export.
That was according to member Cap'njuan at the time, I had no reason to doubt it accuracy but it occurs to me there may still be more to the story, that is, perhaps the paperwork for the wood was incorrectly filled out in order to gain a customs duty advantage.
That was described as the real red flag for the ebony, that their customs broker filled out the paperwork incorrectly (the source supplier IIRC) but Gibson legally still had ultimate responsibility for vetting the accuracy.
Wiki's reference to internal correspondence regarding "grey market" wood at Gibson seems to bear that out:
The United States Department of Justice found emails from 2008 and 2009 in which Gibson employees discussed the "gray market" nature of the ebony wood available from a German wood dealer—who obtained it from a supplier in Madagascar—as well as plans to obtain the wood. It filed a civil proceeding in June 2011,[29][32][33] the first such case under the amended Lacey Act, which requires importing companies to purchase legally harvested wood and follow the environmental laws of the producing countries regardless of corruption or lack of enforcement."

OK I'm going back to my corner, thanks for your patience.
:friendly_wink:
 

adorshki

Reverential Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
34,176
Reaction score
6,791
Location
Sillycon Valley CA
The consumer electronics part is actually headquartered in Hongkong, Philips spun it off because it wasn't doing well and already failed to sell a few years earlier (as documented in Wikipedia)

https://www.philips.com/a-w/about/news/archive/standard/news/press/2014/20140428-Philips-to-sell-WOOX-Innovations-to-Gibson-Brands.html

Merlin that link actually describes the consumer electronics division as:
"WOOX Innovations, headquartered in Hong Kong with approximately 1,900 employees worldwide, is a global and profitable business driving the Philips brand in sound, home entertainment and related accessories."
I think a more likely reason was as stated by a Philips honcho:
“With this transaction, we are taking another important step in Philips’ transformation to become a leading technology company in health and well-being,” said Philips Chief Executive Officer Frans van Houten.
If you've got info to the contrary I'm all ears. I'm just going by what I find on the first pass.
But apparently there was a failed sale attempt to Funai just before Gibson got their opportunity:
"In 2013, the company announced the sale of the bulk of its remaining consumer electronics to Japan's Funai Electric Co,[3] but in October 2013, the deal to Funai Electric Co was broken off and the consumer electronics operations remain under Philips. Philips said it would seek damages for breach of contract in the US$200-million sale.[4] In April 2016, the International Court of Arbitration ruled in favour of Philips, awarding compensation of €135 million in the process.[5]"
Note at least 2 buyers of former Philips subsidiaries pay licensing fees to continue using the name.
That indicates the brand name itself carries a lot of value.
 
Last edited:

twocorgis

Venerated Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
13,923
Reaction score
6,520
Location
Lawn Guyland
Guild Total
18
No that this has anything to do with Gibson not showing up at NAMM This year but I was recently looking at a few of their Limited edition Acoustics like the "Doves in Flight" and the "SJ200 Limited" which are both heavily inlaid and offered in the beautiful "Viper Blue" Transparent finishes. I was blown away by the fact that these $6000-$7500 acoustics were sporting "Richlite" Finger Boards instead of solid wood. Apparently that is something that Gibson has gone to in recent years and while it may have it's merits it just seemed out of place on such a beautiful High end guitar. If this has been discussed previously I apologize as I am not a part of any Gibson forum nor regularly look for info on the brand itself. Here is the link to the two Gibsons I was referring to with the Richlite Fingerboards and I think Bridges as well.

Doves in Flight LTD Viper Blue Model

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gibson-Gib...558481?hash=item25d7dfcd51:g:FwoAAOSwjL5ZLl~N

s-l400.jpg


SJ200 LTD Viper Blue Model

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gibson-LTD...043335?hash=item284b8a3fc7:g:~CIAAOSwAQBZp7vr

s-l1600.jpg


After the recent sale of their Memphis factory and the subsequent fire sale of several Memphis made models at almost below cost prices through Chicago Music Exchange, I think the shift from NAMM to the Consumer Electronics Show sort of spells out the end of Gibson American guitar production as we know it. Hard to believe but I wonder if Gibson Guitars will even be in production by this time next year here in the states.

TX

The blue is nice, but dear God are those ugly!
 

richardp69

Enlightened Member
Gold Supporting
Joined
Aug 11, 2009
Messages
6,007
Reaction score
5,965
Location
Barton City, Michigan
I guess I must like ugly. They look pretty sensational to me. I've recently picked up a few later model Gibson Custom Shop models and at least to my ear, they sound terrific. I agree though, it seems the company is in trouble and may look a whole lot different in the coming months/years. I for one, truly hope they don't walk away from their USA produced acoustics. I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm a fan.
 

bobouz

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2015
Messages
2,229
Reaction score
1,827
I'm a long time fan of Gibsons, both electrics & acoustics, and love the ones I've got. But I thought it was a bad sign when Henry let Ren walk away to join Fender/Guild. Seems like an unending number of bad decisions have followed.

If you're not willing to do what it takes to retain good people, you're going to pay for it down the road.
 
Top