Anybody using a Tonerite to open up their Guild?

Butch

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I don’t know much about the Tonerite, but, I would put your guitar in a stand, in the room where you have your stereo equipment. Crank up the volume on the stereo, and let it play all day while you are at work. Play a different style of music every day so that the guitar experiences a broad range of frequencies. The object is to get the top and back of the guitar to move and vibrate as much as possible. For a guitar to sound really good, the back has to vibrate as much as the top. I have used this technique many times. You will be amazed at the results, but, it does take time.
 

Nuuska

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I don’t know much about the Tonerite, but, I would put your guitar in a stand, in the room where you have your stereo equipment. Crank up the volume on the stereo, and let it play all day while you are at work. Play a different style of music every day so that the guitar experiences a broad range of frequencies. The object is to get the top and back of the guitar to move and vibrate as much as possible. For a guitar to sound really good, the back has to vibrate as much as the top. I have used this technique many times. You will be amazed at the results, but, it does take time.


Hello

If you do that for one guitar only - the most efficient way would be putting the guitar tightly between two speakers - one facing front - one facing back. This way you would not have to offend neighbours. Also it speeds the process, since you get more vibration per consumed watt - unless you are intending treat your house at same time - and this leads automatically to conclusion, that discos, who play EDM must be among best-sounding places - perhaps close to rocket launch pads :biggrin-new:

Ukuleles and mandolins might like to be brought to daycare centres and nurseries and kindergarten.
 

Butch

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Lol... I have 31 guitars. I keep all of my acoustics in stands with the stereo going when I’m not home. I never thought about my neighbors, but then again, I don’t live in a condo or apartment either. My living room does give off a good vibe...Lol...
 

ClydeTower

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UPDATE: I finished my D55's Tonerite treatment yesterday. Lasted 6 days. I gave it 72 hours on the highest setting which, according to Tonerite, should enhance the guitar's volume. I then gave it 72 hours on a lower frequency which is supposed to enhance tone, make it "sweeter". When it was all over, I changed the strings, put on a new set of D'Addario EJ19s (same as before), tuned to concert pitch, took out my trusty Dunlop Ultex .90mm pick and gave the guitar a good whipping. Played for about an hour, let it rest. Played a few more 30 min sessions to get the strings broken in.

My impressions: The D55 still sounds awesome, but is it better? Honestly, its hard to say. I would venture to say that it feels a little looser, and sounds a little more open and resonate, kind of like what the guitar feels like after playing it for an hour but right off the bat. The "piano like" sustain, the quality of the decay, the rich overtones... they're all there, but there seems to be more of it... then again it could just be that what I'm hearing is due to the new strings or it could just be that I hadn't played my D55 for a week and I missed her.

So at this moment, yes the guitar feels and sounds "better" than what I remember before the treatment. Is it real, is it a placebo effect or something else?.. I cannot answer that. Would I try it again? Yes, maybe on a different guitar. I would also try recording a "before and after" track, but I doubt the recording would pick-up the subtle changes in tone or how the guitar feels in your hands.

If any LTGers come across a Tonerite, I encourage you to try it and see what you think.
 

fronobulax

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Thanks for the report. Next time I would consider making the comparison before you change strings because much of the changes you describe also occur on instruments that have never been near a ToneRite but have had changed strings. But we now know who can field ToneRite questions :)
 

ClydeTower

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Thanks for the report. Next time I would consider making the comparison before you change strings because much of the changes you describe also occur on instruments that have never been near a ToneRite but have had changed strings. But we now know who can field ToneRite questions :)

Apparently, the vibration from the Tonerite kills the strings, so your impression would still be "tainted" but in the opposite direction. If someone really wanted to do a good comparison, they would need to put on new strings, play and record, take the strings off and put them aside, put on a "used" set of strings, do the TR treatment, take the strings off and replace them with the initial set. Play and record.

If and when I have time to spare, I might try that. It also begs the question: If the treatments work to some extent, are they permanent and is the effect cumulative?
 

fronobulax

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OK. If I were a snake oil salesman I would tell you that ToneRite kills the strings and that you needed to put a new set on after treatment. That way your instrument would be guaranteed to sound different and probably better and the ToneRite could take some of the credit. But if ToneRite does effect the strings then more experiments would be needed.
 

adorshki

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. It also begs the question: If the treatments work to some extent, are they permanent and is the effect cumulative?

Assuming the same effects are occurring as those which occur during regular playing time, they should be cumulative and permanent.
Here's what I noticed between my 2 dreadnoughts:
BOTH of 'em started to open up after about 200 hours of playing.
The D25 had a "Big Moment" I never would have believed in if I hadn't been there playing it when it happened.
Literally felt the neck vibrating in my hand and was thinking to myself "Wow it's never sounded so full, yet airy at the same time, before" and thinking that somehow the neck vibration was feeding back into the top, either through the heelblock or the fretboard extension or both in a kind of acoustic feedback loop.
With the D40 it was a long slow gradual improvement.
Because I was underwhelmed with the D40's volume when it was new, I devised a test to compare 'em that I could repeat at intervals:
I just strike a full 6-string harmonic at the 12th fret using as much force as I can without any buzz or muted strings. It's a little tricky and I actually do it with bare fingers in a clawhammer technique so I can get 'em all to sound simultaneously and equal volume.
I figured that's getting the max out of the soundbox. Then holding it carefully by the endpin and the heel so the body doesn't get muted by contact, I bring the soundhole up close to my ear and count seconds until the very last of the decaying overtones becomes inaudible.
So it's basically a "decay time" test.
The D25 was already at way past the 250 hours mark when I first tried it and I forget where the D40 was but it definitely was pretty young like I think under 100 hours.
It didn't get as much play time as the D25 for the first 3 or 4 years. I didn't track time "religiously" but knew in any given week if I spent an hour with one of 'em it equated to at last 45 minutes of actual playing and just kept rough track.
Anyway, the D40 was WAY quicker to decay than the D25, which could be attributed to the natural difference between arch and flatbacks, but it also wasn't much louder than the F65ce which has a significantly smaller soundbox.
I forget the exact times but something like 13 seconds for the D25 to 7 seconds to the D40 seem to be the figures? ( I kept notes in the D25's case, it's at home)
A couple of years later after I'd been dedicating bonding time to the '40 it was up by a couple of seconds.
About 4 or 5 years ago when it was finally getting into that 200 hour territory I realized one night "Wow this thing has finally found its voice". I think it was up to 11 seconds that night I think the D25 was up to 15 by then.
But I haven't done the test between all 3 of 'em since then.
Both D's were always strung with the same strings that had similar amounts of playing time when I first tested, and usually tested right after string changes, to eliminate that variable.
Curiously the F65ce seems to have gained the least over time, as if it was already near its peak when it was built.
On the other hand I never tracked the time on that one like I did the D25 and the '40, and only just started really giving it most of my playing time in the last year or so. It might not even be at 200 hours yet, the way my playing has fallen off.
For quality of build and materials it was in the D55 class, just a different body type.
Anyway, my suggestion would be try the test and start tracking actual playing hours on it and see if it evolves.
Or even do the test, give it another treatment, and see if it actually picks up time to complete decay.
:friendly_wink:
 
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wileypickett

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I have a Tonerite. I used it on an F50R that hadn't been touched in decades.

I ran it for a week.

The guitar sounded great before I used it and it still sounded great after.

Whether it affected the sound, I couldn't say. I kind of wanted to believe it did, but really, I think it's wishful thinking.
 

Nuuska

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....I figured that's getting the max out of the soundbox. Then holding it carefully by the endpin and the heel so the body doesn't get muted by contact, I bring the soundhole up close to my ear and count seconds until the very last of the decaying overtones becomes inaudible.
So it's basically a "decay time" test.:friendly_wink:....

Hello

Just made the decay test - holding my New China Guild on my lap - easily over 20 seconds - and I have 2114Hz tinnitus, that masks the sound, when it gets really quiet.
1957 Gibson LG2- 3/4 about 12 sec
Songbird 17 sec
F50R 25 sec
F515 27 sec
F212 25 sec

The new MIC is only one with somewhat new strings. So I held the guitar on my lap - held left index finger on 12th fret - strummed with GUILD-pick - hit timer-start - lifted guitar from heel and endblock up to my right ear. Not very scientific, while only one strum per guitar - but my labrador retriever needs attention - so it is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9mSPFw7BXo time.

To do this test in a more scientific manner, the guitar should be held in a jig or stand with microphone at fixed distance. Then record the sound and analyze from the resulting curve the -40dB or -60dB timemark - and 0dB would be the loudest part and 0 sec starting point.

But more than science I really enjoy the beauty of these wonderful instruments.
 

walrus

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Seriously, this is an interesting thread. I never thought about this stuff. You guys are intense!

I've just played mine for 30+ years...

walrus
 

Rayk

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Lol... I have 31 guitars. I keep all of my acoustics in stands with the stereo going when I’m not home. I never thought about my neighbors, but then again, I don’t live in a condo or apartment either. My living room does give off a good vibe...Lol...

Ooooo can I come over ? Lol
 

Rayk

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On the Tonerite , I think it would be very hard to report a difference without having multiple tests that could be accurately repeated.

I wonder , is a vibrator lol carrying the same frequency ranges as your noting while you play ? Does each note and frequency effect the guitars break in ? Would the guitar break in differently if you play country vrs rock vrs finger style and rhythmic tapping ?

I don’t have a clue but I like the idea of my guitars absorbing my mojo of the years of playing 😁

Another think is tops are said to break in over different time rates with cedar having a fast break in followed by Sitka then Adirondack.

I’ve read a few articles and forum threads on the subject over the years some say it depends
On environment , manufacturers , playing style etc .

Some say for Adirondack it takes years to open up . I kind of believe it my blueridge has opened up a bit so I feel and I’ve played her a lot but I think/ feel she’s still honing her tone .

Again it’s an interesting topic for sure .

Here’s a link to a 2014 thread on Adirondack on AGF , I’m sure there’s more and I even bet there’s even one for tonerite lol


.http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327664
 

adorshki

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I wonder , is a vibrator lol carrying the same frequency ranges as your noting while you play? Does each note and frequency effect the guitars break in ?
I once saw Alphonse Mouzon play his drums with large stick-style vibrators in '74, while he was in Larry Coryell's Eleventh House.
I never heard a happier set of drums.
Would the guitar break in differently if you play country vrs rock vrs finger style and rhythmic tapping ?
Davisman thinks all the different tunings he likes to change up between help a guitar top get the maximum "exercise".
Made sense to me.

Another think is tops are said to break in over different time rates with cedar having a fast break in followed by Sitka then Adirondack.
Some say for Adirondack it takes years to open up . I kind of believe it my blueridge has opened up a bit so I feel and I’ve played her a lot but I think/ feel she’s still honing her tone .
Again it’s an interesting topic for sure .
Here’s a link to a 2014 thread on Adirondack on AGF , I’m sure there’s more and I even bet there’s even one for tonerite lol
.http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327664

I love the way you research materials, and report it here.
I'd give ya a whack but my arm's tired again.
 

Rayk

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I once saw Alphonse Mouzon play his drums with large stick-style vibrators in '74, while he was in Larry Coryell's Eleventh House.
I never heard a happier set of drums.

Davisman thinks all the different tunings he likes to change up between help a guitar top get the maximum "exercise".
Made sense to me.



I love the way you research materials, and report it here.
I'd give ya a whack but my arm's tired again.

My research skills totally pale to yours no doubt lol
It would not matter if I found a totally proven research page filled with scientific proven facts and then reported on it because I would only remember tidbits and if asked I could never locate said page on the net again confusion me even more thinking how the heck did I find it in the first place !?
It’s difficult being me !
 

adorshki

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My research skills totally pale to yours no doubt lol
It would not matter if I found a totally proven research page filled with scientific proven facts and then reported on it because I would only remember tidbits and if asked I could never locate said page on the net again confusion me even more thinking how the heck did I find it in the first place !?
It’s difficult being me !

I got the brains, you got the brawn, let's make lots of money.



Seriously and specifically by "materials" I meant all the posts you've done about tonewood qualities such as when you were deciding what to use on your custom-built.
And oh yeah, those gold frets, never even heard about those before.
Want a whack?
 
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Rayk

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I got the brains, you got the brawn, let's make lots of money.



Seriously and specifically by "materials" I meant all the posts you've done about tonewood qualities such as when you were deciding what to use on your custom-built.
And oh yeah, those gold frets, never even heard about those before.
Want a whack?


Yeah go ahead but I’ll wait till you get your strength back . Lol
 

Neal

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Here's an experiment I try on a regular basis.

Step 1. Take guitar out of case.
Step 2. Find a 1.5 Dunlop pick.
Step 3. Pick a bunch of tunes.
Step 4. Put the guitar back in the case.
Step 5. Repeat daily.

Miracle of miracles, the guitar sounds better week by week. Probably because I'm better at playing it, and getting the tone I am looking for from it.
 
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