CE-100 black finish: Original or refurb?

3Chord Ziggy

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Hi, new user here looking for anybody who might have some experience with the Capri CE-100. Got a 1957 Capri w/ a black finish. It's pretty crackled, some chips off of the neck. A few years back I had an appraiser tell me that it had been refinished because Guild didn't make them in black. Since then, I've seen a couple of sources that imply that they did, indeed, make a model in black, but not after 1958. Naturally, I want to believe it's the original finish. Has anybody ever seen one of these with an original black finish?
 

bobouz

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Welcome to the LTG forum.

Don't know the answer re your instrument's finish,
but gotta say I love your user name!
 

hansmoust

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Got a 1957 Capri w/ a black finish. It's pretty crackled, some chips off of the neck. A few years back I had an appraiser tell me that it had been refinished because Guild didn't make them in black. Since then, I've seen a couple of sources that imply that they did, indeed, make a model in black, but not after 1958. Naturally, I want to believe it's the original finish. Has anybody ever seen one of these with an original black finish?

Hello 3Chord Ziggy,

Welcome! The CE-100 was listed as being available with a Black finish during the year 1958 and all the ones that I've seen so far (and that were not all that many) were from that year. However, it would not surprise me if a slightly earlier version would show up.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

walrus

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A black '57 Capri sounds very very cool! Love to see some pictures!

And welcome to LTG!

walrus
 

sailingshoes72

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Welcome to the LTG Forum!

Hans Moust (post #3) is the author of "The Guild Guitar Book" (1995) which covers the history of the Company and the Instruments from 1952 to 1977. He is also a member and contributor to this Forum. His reply to your question is the most accurate you will find.

We do like photos around here... so if you can navigate the steps to posting photos, we would love to see pix of your '57 CE-100! :encouragement:

Oh... and by the way, your first few posts have to be screened by a moderator, so they will not necessarily show up in real time.
 
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3Chord Ziggy

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Thanks, nice to be here. I was just trying to confirm that somebody else on the planet had actually seen one with a black finish. The serial number suggests that it is a '57, but given the nature of product management in those days, and at that particular firm, and given that the factory burned down at one point, well, it could easily be a '58. The few resources available note that a "Black Beauty" is listed as an option, but didn't appear in the advertising brochures after '58. Thanks for the input!
 

3Chord Ziggy

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I may have it wrong (and it's easy enough to research on the intergoogle), but I seem to recall that Guild had a shop in north Jersey somewhere, maybe Paterson? At some point it I think there was a pretty serious fire in that shop, and they ended up relocating. Again, I could be totally wrong. This might be some urban myth like the Martin wood shop fire (which apparently never happened). I'll double-check. I recall reading something about a lot of the production records being lost or damaged. Pretty sure I read it on the internet, so I'm sure it was true. Yeah.
 

3Chord Ziggy

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Nope. I'm trippin'. While trying to find info on Guild serial numbers a few years back, I read on the Guild website that a number of production records had been lost, but it turns out, that likely occurred in the moves from Manhattan to Hoboken, and then during the expansion to Rhode Island.

I have no idea where the fire bit came from. My apologies. I'm a child of the 60s. Probably a flashback. Whoa, look at all those pretty colors.....far out!
 

adorshki

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Tell me more, please. Not a story I recall.
Wonder if this is a "myth" deriving from an observation that a primary reason for relocating to Westerly was that the Hoboken building owners didn't want to renew Guild's lease due to a fear of fire danger to other tenants in building?
Don't recall if that was in Hans' book or somewhere else, but it was one of those stories that stuck with me.
Still, who knows how many records were lost, misplaced, damaged beyond salvagability or simply discarded after ownership changes and moves over the years?
I bet even Hans still scratches his head in wonderment.
 

hansmoust

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Wonder if this is a "myth" deriving from an observation that a primary reason for relocating to Westerly was that the Hoboken building owners didn't want to renew Guild's lease due to a fear of fire danger to other tenants in building?
Don't recall if that was in Hans' book or somewhere else, but it was one of those stories that stuck with me.

It was in my book. Leon Tell told me that! (page 18, first column)

I bet even Hans still scratches his head in wonderment.

Not really! Almost every guitar manufacturer has one or several 'burned down' stories. However there was never a fire at Guild. At some point there was a fire in the building, but it happened to another business on one of the higher floors. No fire damage at Guild; just water coming through the ceiling.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

adorshki

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Not really! Almost every guitar manufacturer has one or several 'burned down' stories. However there was never a fire at Guild. At some point there was a fire in the building, but it happened to another business on one of the higher floors. No fire damage at Guild; just water coming through the ceiling.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
Ahh, thanks, but my "Scratching my head in wonderment" comment was actually about how many records were lost or even maybe about how so much survived given all the potential for loss and damage over the years.
Do you wonder if there are surviving production records out there that are simply lost, or do you believe that you've got a pretty complete collection, at least as far as close of Westerly or Corona?
Don't recall if anybody's ever asked.
 

hansmoust

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...... but my "Scratching my head in wonderment" comment was actually about how many records were lost or even maybe about how so much survived given all the potential for loss and damage over the years.
Do you wonder if there are surviving production records out there that are simply lost, or do you believe that you've got a pretty complete collection, at least as far as close of Westerly or Corona?

Oh, I'm quite sure that a lot was lost, but some records that we thought were lost actually turned up several years after my book came out, so I guess I was lucky.

There still may be some old records somewhere, but if that's the case I don't think that anyone is aware of them, so they're basically lost; I can only wish that someone will surprise me!

However, with what I have in my database, I believe I have a pretty good idea what Guild produced, not only during the Westerly and Corona period, but also during the New York, NY and Hoboken, NJ years. Obviously that means the regular production and not so much the one-offs; you will only learn about those once you come across them.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 
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adorshki

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However, with what I have in my database, I believe I have a pretty good idea what Guild produced, not only during the Westerly and Corona period, but also during the New York, NY and Hoboken, NJ years. Obviously that means the regular production and not so much the one-offs; you will only learn about those once you come across them.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl

Yes it was that very early stuff that I suspected had the most potential to have been lost over the years.
And I'm sorry to ask one more question, but do you have any further progress updates about when the second volume of the Guild Guitar Book might finally appear?
 

fronobulax

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I may have it wrong (and it's easy enough to research on the intergoogle), but I seem to recall that Guild had a shop in north Jersey somewhere, maybe Paterson? At some point it I think there was a pretty serious fire in that shop, and they ended up relocating. Again, I could be totally wrong. This might be some urban myth like the Martin wood shop fire (which apparently never happened). I'll double-check. I recall reading something about a lot of the production records being lost or damaged. Pretty sure I read it on the internet, so I'm sure it was true. Yeah.

Thanks. First factory was in NYC. Second was in Hoboken NJ and then Westerly RI and we are into the 21st Century. I will say with certainty, because I Am Never Wrong that there were no fires associated with the move from Hoboken to Westerly (or any of the 21st Century moves). So if your fire story is not a myth and my memory is correct, it must be a NYC fire in the 1950's.

As for records, Guild is pretty notorious for not keeping "good records" and we don't need a fire story to explain that. Many records never made it from Westerly to Fender Archives, for example.
 

fronobulax

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And once again I replied and then read the rest of the thread :)

What Hans wrote and said.
 

3Chord Ziggy

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Thanks for clearing up my ever-failing memory. I recalled something to do with a fire at some point, but didn't do my research before blathering. Glad you're around to keep me in line.

But, also, thanks for the insight into the ax that started this wandering thread. I'll post a pic or two if I ever figure out how to do so. Thus far I can only get a link in, can't drop a jpg into the text box.
 
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