Repaintig F-150R CE (GAD)

cutrofiano

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Hi everybody,

I'll have the top of my F-150R CE repainted.
My son had dropped his iPhone on it and although I tried very hard to ignore it, the damage was too annoying to me :neglected:
If it had happend playing it - but dropping an iPhone on it isn't fair...

So I carefully shaped and sanded the top (including bridge):

F-150R%20CE%20Lack%20runter.JPG


THAT top is really beautiful!

F-150R%20CE%20Lack%20runter%202.JPG


Some delicate corners:

F-150R%20CE%20Lack%20runter%203.JPG


F-150R%20CE%20Lack%20runter%204.JPG


I guess GREE uses PE or Epoxy.
Does anyone positively know?

At the moment I am waiting for a genuine Guild rosewood bridge - delivery through a friend of mine in Missouri as CITES won't allow direct delivery from Cordoba Guitars.

Cheers,

Moritz
 
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gjmalcyon

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Are these locating holes for bridge placement? Were there corresponding holes in the bridge, along with pins?

It is a pretty top.

2DR39sf.jpg
 

Kitarkus

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It looks like you are doing a marvelous job! Perhaps this is a language translation issue....but so long as you have taken it this far and with meticulous detail....perhaps you shouldn't "paint" the guitar!!? I'd hope that you will use a stain/toner that you prefer and then seal with a nitro or similar appropriate gloss finish. I'd bet that given your work thus far....your guitar may end up even better than it had begun!
 

adorshki

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Are these locating holes for bridge placement? Were there corresponding holes in the bridge, along with pins?
I also recall the question coming up of whether or not the pin spacing on these even matches the US-built guitars.
Foggy memory says actually no it doesn't.
Moritz when you say a "Cordoba" bridge, I assume that would be for a US-built model?
Because I don't think they actually keep repair parts for the MIC guitars in the US.
You may want to check pin spacing if you haven't already..

It is a pretty top.
2DR39sf.jpg
Yes, can see some silking there.
Remember, Fender actually handled the wood selection for those, and had it shipped in to China under their control, stated reason was to ensure wood used in these was always up to their standards.
In retrospect I suspect there were also CITES compliance reasons as well.
Doing it their way would ensure they had complete documentation of the chain of custody of the wood and would simplify/ease the importation of the finished product back into the US.
RE what glue used:
Don't recall ever seeing a spec for the glue used.
If anybody here would know I'd expect Ralf, (SFIV1967) to be the one.
Looking good so far, hope this info helped!
 
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cutrofiano

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Thanks for your feedback :)

@Kitarkus: Would "revarnishing" be correct? I wasn't sure...

@adhorski: I have recently seen a F-150R CE with no cross silking at all and notable signs of grain runout.
It had tight grain but was not half as nice as mine so they seem to be not necessarily all of the same standard.
But that was propably still single A quality.

The two little holes you have marked are for the Fishman piezo's cable - side to chose...
They are drilled in an angle to make it easier to thread in the piezo into the bridge.
But I wonder what that big hole in the middle of the bridge, the one filled with glue, is good for.
The glue covers a bolt of Rosewood, comig from underneath.

The Guild bridge I have ordered should be a 1:1 fit: "GAD Rosewood Bridge Dreadnought / Jumbo":

https://shop.guildguitars.com/product/gad-rosewood-bridge-dreadnoughtjumbo/

My question, PE or Epoxy, was aiming to the varnish, not the glue.

Cheers,

Moritz
 
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adorshki

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Thanks for your feedback :)
We loves ya bro.
@Kitarkus: Would "revarnishing" be correct? I wasn't sure...
In "American" we just say "refinish"
@adhorski: I have recently seen a F-150R CE with no cross silking at all and notable signs of grain runout.
It had tight grain but was not half as nice as mine so they seem to be not necessarily all of the same standard.
But that was propably still single A quality
Right, probably all "A" by Fender's standards.

But I wonder what that big hole in the middle of the bridge, the one filled with glue, is good for.
The glue covers a bolt of Rosewood, comig from underneath.
That is kind of strange, and I'm guessing it may be some kind of locating aid much like the pinholes were thought to be .
I just realized this may be the most in depth dissection of a GAD model and build techniques we've ever seen here. Thanks!
My question, PE or Epoxy, was aiming to the varnish, not the glue.
Aha!
Polyester.
:friendly_wink:
 
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gjmalcyon

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The two little holes you have marked are for the Fishman piezo's cable - side to chose...
They are drilled in an angle to make it easier to thread in the piezo into the bridge.
Moritz

Ah, I see. That would be where the saddle is.

Thanks.
 

adorshki

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The bolt inside the hole is part of this:

F-150R%20CE%20bridge%20underneath.jpg
OK, obviously it has something to do with the transducer.
I assumed it just had a ribbon type that had the lead coming out of one end, after your explanation about making it easier to thread the TD, but now I'm wondering if the (or another) piezo transducer is under that "blob" of glue itself?
Where does that lead go? Does the guitar have tone/volume controls and a battery pack?
I thought they were completely passive.
 

cutrofiano

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The Guild bridge I have ordered should be a 1:1 fit: "GAD Rosewood Bridge Dreadnought / Jumbo":

The bridge arrived today.
What a shame!

GAD%20Replacement%20Bridge.JPG


The spacing of the pin holes is too wide:
60 mm middle to middle 1st to 6th instead of 53 mm.

I am so upset :blue:

If you compare the bridge sent with the photo on their website, they haven't sent the right thing:

Guild%20bridge%20comparison.JPG


You can easily tell the pin holes on the photo's bridge are closer.

I wonder if this should make me suspicious:

GAD%20Replacement%20Bridge%20Package%20close.JPG


It doesn't say: "GAD" :cold:

Moritz
 
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ezstrummer

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Cant wait to see it done. Do you have any pics of the damage before you started??
 

cutrofiano

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Cant wait to see it done.

There will be a notable delay, now that I have to solve the bridge problem first...
And it might cost me a whole lot more than I had initially planed :neglected:

Do you have any pics of the damage before you started??

No, it was to annoying to be revered by a photo :)
But seriously:
There was a sharp crack in the varnish and a little dent in the wood, that I was sure would pop out (if necessary with the help of a little water) once the finish was removed.
That's precisely what happened, I didin't even need water.
But there had been no substantial damage in the wood.

Moritz
 
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CosmicArkie

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You'd be well advised to go ahead and refinish the top before re-gluing the bridge. Leave about 1/8" or slightly less for a border of finish under the bridge edges and mask off the top to leave bare wood to glue to.
finish-under-edge-lg.jpg

Then use Titebond glue for the bridge. For a one time deal, I'd run a couple 4mm machine screws/nuts with large "fender" flat washers on both side through the #1 and #6 pin holes for the clamping, along with deep throat "c" clamps for the ends of the bridge. Then use a taper reamer to clean up the pin holes. Something like: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-1-8-1...050212?hash=item41c76355a4:g:0g8AAOSw6ShZO1p8
 

adorshki

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You'd be well advised to go ahead and refinish the top before re-gluing the bridge. Leave about 1/8" or slightly less for a border of finish under the bridge edges and mask off the top to leave bare wood to glue to.
finish-under-edge-lg.jpg

Then use Titebond glue for the bridge. For a one time deal, I'd run a couple 4mm machine screws/nuts with large "fender" flat washers on both side through the #1 and #6 pin holes for the clamping, along with deep throat "c" clamps for the ends of the bridge. Then use a taper reamer to clean up the pin holes. Something like: https://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-1-8-1...050212?hash=item41c76355a4:g:0g8AAOSw6ShZO1p8

That's the way they did it in Westerly that leads to the notorious bridge lift problem. It's very clean cosmetically but the glue-to-finish bod is stronger than the NCL finish-to-wood bond so the stress against the back of the bridge pulls up the finish and creates the gap.
Never seen anything about the strength of a poly finish to wood bond.
RE Titebond I know that's common today and probably what they used in China, but traditionally Guild used hide glue because it had the best creep resistance of any glue used in woodworking, that needed to be releasable with steam heat.
In other words, it basically does not "stretch" under the pressure of a guitar's joints.
Moritz: If you can find an economical small quantity of hideglue I'd suggest that over Titiebond.

Sorry to hear about the pinhole mismatch, it does confirm my memory of that issue I tried to warn about.
It sure looks as if they simply got their inventory mixed up, and that's actually a bridge for a US build.
Maybe they'll do a courtesy replacement?
Which leads me to ask, why do you need the replacement anyway, I assume the original must have been damaged during removal?

In fact, regarding this whole re-finishing project, that it's only an attempt to fix a dent in the finish, I was just contacted by the International Mojo Preservation Society, ("IMPS"), and they're looking for you.
You may rest assured I told 'em I only knew that your forum handle here sounded Italian.
:biggrin-new:
 

cutrofiano

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That's the way they did it in Westerly that leads to the notorious bridge lift problem.
I am not going to do this myself, that's the part of the job that a professional will have to do.
Stability over cosmetics demands no finish at all at least under the back edge of the bridge, even if it should result in a seam that remains visible.
But unfortunately I'm not at the point to be allowed to plan that far.

Maybe they'll do a courtesy replacement?
Courtesy should not be necessary as they sent a bridge which is not the one described and ordered.
But I am afraid they simply do not have the GAD bridge.

Which leads me to ask, why do you need the replacement anyway, I assume the original must have been damaged during removal?
For not taking any risk tearing it off - it was sanded to dust :)

In fact, regarding this whole re-finishing project, that it's only an attempt to fix a dent in the finish...
Not just an attempt, it is going to be fixed - one or the other way.

I was just contacted by the International Mojo Preservation Society, ("IMPS"), and they're looking for you.
You may rest assured I told 'em I only knew that your forum handle here sounded Italian.

I’m going to make them an offer they can’t refuse :anonymous:

Don C.
 

Kitarkus

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Cutrofiano....If I may be of any help to you in getting a bridge on this side of the pond and shipping across the pond...I'd be pleased to try to assist. You point me in the right direction and I'll be your mule.

Kit
 

adorshki

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Courtesy should not be necessary as they sent a bridge which is not the one described and ordered.
But I am afraid they simply do not have the GAD bridge.
By "courtesy" I only meant that perhaps they'd just send out a new one at no charge an not even ask for the old one back. Sometimes that's cheaper than the paperwork and shipping cost associated with doing an exchange when it's their error. I do it for my customers myself if the value of their incorrect product is under $25.00.
For not taking any risk tearing it off - it was sanded to dust :)
NOW I understand.

Not just an attempt, it is going to be fixed - one or the other way.
English syntax to enhance the humor of the mojo preservation society gag.
:friendly_wink:


I’m going to make them an offer they can’t refuse :anonymous:

Don C.
Remind me to avoid dark alleys for a while.
 
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adorshki

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Cutrofiano....If I may be of any help to you in getting a bridge on this side of the pond and shipping across the pond...I'd be pleased to try to assist. You point me in the right direction and I'll be your mule.

Kit

The thing to do is to get 'em to confirm that they actually have the GAD bridge pictured.
As I mentioned I was a bit surprised to see it listed at all, since under Fender, all the GADS were typically exchanged not repaired.
Fender reserved the right to do that at their discretion in the GAD warranty.
AFAIK Fender did not actually repair those although we have seen MIRC refurbs.
I can't recall actually seeing an example of a warranty repair being done here, only the replacement, because overall it was cheaper for Fender that way. **
I even recall at least 2 stories of owners who were a bit disenchanted with the offer because they actually liked the specific instrument they owned so much.
So it would seem illogical for 'em to carry repair parts, but on the other hand, I just realized that they may have wanted to be able to provide 'em to shops performing non-warranty repairs.
On top of that, "IIRC" Cordoba was using GREE for their own MIC flattop line before buying Guild and so may have already been in the business of carrying parts for 'em.
But that parts listing Moritz posted was pretty darn specific so I believe Cordoba must have had 'em and hopefully can still get 'em if they're out of stock.
**I do recall a story of a loose or broken brace being repaired on one, but I think it was done by a "Not Fender Authorized" repair person and so wasn't under warranty, but the owner opted to do it that way because they wanted to keep the guitar; not send it to Fender and risk getting an exchange instead of their beloved guitar back.
 
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cutrofiano

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Cutrofiano....If I may be of any help to you in getting a bridge on this side of the pond and shipping across the pond...I'd be pleased to try to assist. You point me in the right direction and I'll be your mule.

Hi Kit,
sorry, I have only seen your post now.
Thank you very much, that's very kind.
Fortunately I had my friend Cheryl from St. Louis who helped out me by receiving the bridge from Guild and forwarding it to me.
Let's keep fingers crossed I will need her help another time (-> Guild searches and finds the correct part).

If not, I will have to have one made by a local luthier which will easily double the expenes for the refinishing.

Moritz
 
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