Guild Newark QC problems?

Minnesota Flats

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I notice that there seem to be an awful lot of "B-stock" and "refurbished" Newark SF Basses showing lately on E-Bay and Reverb. Wonder what the deal is with that.

I guess it's good if the issues are all cosmetic, as it will allow people with less discretionary income to enjoy otherwise-playable instruments due to the lower prices at which these are being offered.

Still, seems odd that there are so many of them.
 

lungimsam

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Wierd.
Guild could say.
It’s not just one seller, either. At least listed by what appears to be different sellers.
One says the headstock was stamped used and given a new serial number per Guild.
Strange.
I think it is important to only buy from an authorized dealer. If Guild does that sort of thing.
 

fronobulax

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We have discussed this some and there are anecdotes about instruments that perhaps should not have left the factory showing up at retail. Part of the problem is that after "Inspector 11" signs off at the factory, the next human to see the instrument is the person who opens the box. Sometimes that's a dealer but sometimes it is the customer.

I have not been reading the ads you have but that won't stop me from having an opinion which you are all anxiously waiting to hear.

"B-Stock" often is applied to factory perfect instruments that, for whatever reason, don't have the standard warranty. We have seen B-Stock guitars that were being sold as such because the demand was not as great as production. So the proliferation of B-Stock may mean the market is close to saturation, rather than a QC issue.

"refurbished" is another story. The interesting question is "who did the refurbishing?". If Guild knew it has a QC issue with a batch it may just have shipped them to a refurbisher, had the issue addressed and sucked up the loss. If the selling dealer did the work then it could be they caught a QC issue and cut a deal with Guild so they got reimbursed for fixing it before sale. But it could also be that the instruments in question were sold and then returned or they may have been floor samples.

It would be interesting to know the date of manufacture on some of these because if there is a problem that might help determine what and when. It may be that folks are trying to move old stock which might not be QC as much as lower demand.
 

txbumper57

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If you look in the ads on Reverb a lot of them will have the reasoning for the "B" stock designation written in the Guild paperwork they are displaying as well. In one of the ads for a Black SFII bass the paperwork states that there is contamination of small shiny flakes in the paint under the finish. This looks to me like a Genuine batch of Guilds that the factory chose to ship as "B" stock as opposed to destroying the instruments or sending them to a Refurbishing facility. Just an opinion of course.

TX
 

Minnesota Flats

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"It may be that folks are trying to move old stock which might not be QC as much as lower demand."

That did occur to me as a possibility. We are entering somewhat uncharted waters which present real challenges for these companies as the older, guitar/bass/rock instrument-obsessed generations age and die off and the middle class (with its previously-large numbers and discretionary income) shrinks. At some point, we will probably come to a place where there is an immense glut of product in the market (including good-condition used stuff) as demand falls off and players pass on. Has to be difficult for manufacturers to gauge exactly when the "tipping point" (if you will) will arrive and anticipate how much/when to start severely moderating production.

Add to that that Guild bass users seem like kind of a niche market which is probably much easier to saturate than say, that of Fender.

I assume that if all these refurbs and B-stock were actually Chinese knock-offs, Guild would already be seeking legal recourse or intervention.

In any case, just struck me as odd that there seemed to be so many of these showing up all of a sudden.
 

adorshki

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Wierd.
Guild could say.
It’s not just one seller, either. At least listed by what appears to be different sellers.
One says the headstock was stamped used and given a new serial number per Guild.
Strange.
I think it is important to only buy from an authorized dealer. If Guild does that sort of thing.
To get a valid "new instrument warranty", yes, you need to buy from an authorized dealer.
But I suspect these aren't going to have a warranty.
"For what it's worth", that's typical Musical Instrument Reclamation Corporation practice.
http://mircweb.com/
They were Fender's go-to for liquidating "B" stock, overstock, and refurbishing of warranty exchanges or QC rejects, going all the way back to Corona.
The new s/n was to identify those instruments which no longer qualified for warranty.
Typically they were a bar-code sticker.
The "used" stamp was not universally applied, to my memory, but you get the idea.
Haven't bothered to search to see the ads but it wouldn't surprise me if these are simply MIRC re-furbs showing up now because MIRC just acquired a "batch" or "lot" of them, and having completed their "process", just released 'em to interested dealers.
We've seen reports that Fender didn't actually repair the imports, at least the Made in China acoustics , because in almost all cases it was cheaper for them to provide a warranty exchange.
So it seems reasonable that Cordoba's doing the same and still sending stuff to MIRC< IF in fact it's not actually old Fender-era inventory...
 

txbumper57

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Here is the link and photos from one of the several ads posted by "Milwaukee Vintage Collective" on Reverb.

https://reverb.com/item/10554255-20...-stock-black-with-ohsc-and-free-shipping-5887

As you can see from the photos and description these are not Old "Fender Era" guitars as this model in this color wasn't even made until after 3 years after Fender sold Guild to Cordoba. The serial number is still a Guild Serial number and according to the first 3 letters and 2 digits which are KSG17 it was made in Korea in 2017. The photos show the paperwork and reasoning from Guild for the "B Stock" designation on this one which is a small blemish in the neck finish at the 8th fret. Still has it's original Guild Paperwork, Packaging, and Case candy available as well. The tag on the box itself is dated 1-16-18 and also carries the description of the "B Stock" designation with the matching Guild serial number which is also present on the rest of the paperwork. No need for speculation on this one as it is all pretty much Straight Forward in the ad with the exception of whether or not it comes with any factory warranty. The shop is offering a 14 day return as well if it is not up to your standards. Here are some pics from the ad.

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TX
 

adorshki

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Here is the link and photos from one of the several ads posted by "Milwaukee Vintage Collective" on Reverb.
TX

Thanks for the "heavy lifting" on that dealer, at least.
Yep for sure that doesn't look like an MIRC piece.
Gonna guess that this comment: "One says the headstock was stamped used and given a new serial number per Guild." was for a different seller and an exception that he happened to see come up with these others in a search?
 

lungimsam

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That quote was from one I saw on ebay.
 

fronobulax

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I'm going with the theory that these are recent (2017 or newer) instruments with cosmetic issues and Guild decided to sell as B stock rather than recall and destroy. I don't think MIRC had anything to do with them (with a possible exception, pending clarification, of the "USED" stamp on one) and we would be wise to remember that while MIRC is the largest volume provider of refurbished instruments, the term "refurbished" can apply to instruments that were worked on elsewhere.

I am not surprised that there continue to be cosmetic issues in the Newark Street line. There were credible rumors from the beginning of the line that there were problems with the finishes and stories that some of the solid finishes covered botched sunbursts.

I also read the reports that suggest the guitar market is shrinking, or at least not growing. I think the niche for Guild basses is pretty small although I would not be surprised to find that Guild dominated the market for new hollow body basses. I note the absence of solid body Newark Street Guild basses but realistically, with the exception of the original JetStar, don't see much potential for Newark Street versions selling well. (JetStar might show up if the corresponding gumby shape guitars do well. The Pilots, while pretty amazing, have many similar alternatives today and I don't see much upside to making something that would compete with everything else, including vintage Pilots).

I am reminded that Sandy attempted to get a M-85 via a Stupid Deal of the Day and returned three or four because of various issues.
 

Minnesota Flats

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"There were credible rumors from the beginning of the line that there were problems with the finishes and stories that some of the solid finishes covered botched sunbursts."

I would be sorely tempted by a 'burst SF-II. I passed on the Hillman/Byrds sig SF-I, not because I don't have enormous respect and admiration for him/them, but because I'm just not really into signature models commemorating anybody.
 

adorshki

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That quote was from one I saw on ebay.

Oh I didn't doubt you, I just think it was probably an actual MIRC piece whereas TX was pointing out that "Milwaukee Vintage Collective" has several ads up for instruments that aren't MIRC pieces.
The other possibility is that description you saw was cut-and-pasted from an older listing for an actual MIRC re-furb and not accurate for the instrument listed.
What we still haven't seen answered is whether these "B-stocks" have any kind of warranty.
The presence of all the factory paperwork certainly implies it but Cordoba may be tracking the s/n's on their end.
In past the advice has been to ask the seller specifically if the instrument has a warranty, in fact even more specifically, "Whose?":
Cordoba's or the seller's?
 

fronobulax

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"There were credible rumors from the beginning of the line that there were problems with the finishes and stories that some of the solid finishes covered botched sunbursts."

I would be sorely tempted by a 'burst SF-II. I passed on the Hillman/Byrds sig SF-I, not because I don't have enormous respect and admiration for him/them, but because I'm just not really into signature models commemorating anybody.

A quick check of the Newark Street guitars suggests that they have figured out how to spray a burst so the absence of a burst SF II bass is probably a marketing/demand decision and not just that they can't spray one right the first time.
 

Minnesota Flats

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"There were credible rumors from the beginning of the line that there were problems with the finishes and stories that some of the solid finishes covered botched sunbursts."

"A quick check of the Newark Street guitars suggests that they have figured out how to spray a burst so the absence of a burst SF II bass is probably a marketing/demand decision and not just that they can't spray one right the first time."

_____________________________________________________________________

Didn't seem to be an issue with the Hillman Sig SFs. Unless, of course, there are a couple of maple, SF-I standard bodies out there hiding under opaque black paint and sporting standard (no sig/no "Byrds" inlay) necks.

OK, 'fess up: who's got one!? :tongue-new:
 
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