Guild GAD Rare on LTG Forum

dreadnut

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Hi Billy, love my DV-52; so do you own a DV-52 and a DV-62?
 

Rayk

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Man fixing guitars these days for us money watchers is a much harder decision. Lol

I spoke with my local luthier few days back .
His neck reset price is 850 bucks which includes set up frets and all .

His old price on fret jobs was 250 . Not sure if that went up .

He said he will not work on MIC guitars . I did not press him for his reasons .

We can’t tell someone if their guitar is worth the repair or not , I think we all bond over time with instruments and makes it worth it so it is what is then once in a while hindsight knocks on your door. .

As Bon mentioned that his MIC sounds better I can believe it . I actually think it makes sense that when MIC.guitars started doing their thing that tonality was more in focus then say many old made guitars here in the US .

Over the years tonality jumped as a focus point . I know there’s some very old great sounding guitars but at the same time due to technology of the times if the box worked then ship it out, fine tuning had to be a much longer process then , then now .

I played a few below average Guilds . Also played some below average MIC Guilds .

As to wood grades we know USA stock is pretty good stuff . In China I’m not sure , I feel in some cases grading could be inconsistent.

Anyway I’d fix my MIC Blueridge and if it needs frets I’m going Evo golds lol
But over all it’s a bonding thing and the fact my Blue kicks some serious butt .😬
 
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billymox

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Hi Billy, love my DV-52; so do you own a DV-52 and a DV-62?


No DV-52 in my parlour. The DV-62 fits in very well. I'm trying to be very nice to fellows in LTG forum, and subtlety reveal my most modest status as a noble retired school teacher, then some aging forum friends will gift me with wonderful pricing on a DV-72 and a D-55, and I will reward everyone with some Dylan, Paul Simon and Gordon Lightfoot ballads. My Eastmans are great guitars, but the DV-52 is my "go-to" guitar with it's smooth mellow voice to accompany my 60s songs.
 

billymox

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What is the approximate cost of a neck reset for an acoustic?
And what is the approximate cost to have all new frets for an acoustic?
 
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Bonneville88

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Depends on where you go and who does the work...
Around here, St. Louis MO area, neck resets on an acoustic guitar are now
+/- $300 to $450, complete refret +/- $225 to $350.
All that can vary depending on what if anything else is needed.
 
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CocoaPicker

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Thanks Cocoa. Even though I considered myself our resident Sinophile for a while there, I was still a made-in-USA purist when it came to guitars.
NOW?
Well, when I think about my original non-negotiable requirement for a guitar that was worth re-fretting or repairing, I'm still a made-in-USA-purist.
Why?
I can't deny the bang-for-buck value of the MIC's but we're still seeing the same old conundrum:
When it comes time to re-fret it costs about as much as the guitar's worth (if not more), so why not just get another guitar?
It used to irk my sense of conservation of craftsmanship back then, and it still irks me now.
I spend money on shoes that are worth re-soling too.
Doesn't make sense to me to save $50.00 on a pair of shoes that are dead when the soles wear out and can't be replaced.
Over the long run you'll wind up buying 3 times as many shoes.

I'm definitely with you there. My mom likes to quote an older friend who used to say, "I'm too poor to buy cheap shoes." In fact, my basic philosophy of material things boils down to, "Modest house, old cars, quality shoes, nice guitars." ;-)

Another issue coming to light is parts availability for repair.
<...>
Point being, any repair parts Cordoba acquired from New Hartford were made for strictly for US guitars.

Good point. That reminds me of when I bought a piano about 20 years ago and was tempted by the a Yamaha, which seemed absolutely perfect when new. I did some research and found that they do hold up well, but they're still basically built for planned obsolescence-- albeit over a 25- to 30-year lifespan. Parts are available enough, but it's hard to get a tech to rebuild one as the results usually don't justify the effort once they wear out. Instead, I bought a 1927 Baldwin at 1/3 the price, and have since paid to have it rebuilt, in affordable increments-- still not approaching the cost of a comparable new Yamaha. It was a good decision for me. Of course, Yamaha is still turning great profits while Baldwin is basically out of business, so I can see why some of the instrument manufacturers go the way they do.

I wonder what parts availability is like for the MIC Guids, in China, compared to parts for US-built ones. Just a thought.

<...>
AS for our Chinese brethren developing a taste for the US-built stuff, let's just hope they aren't reduced to having to buy it from all those high-priced Japanese outfits who list 'em on eABy all the time..... :glee:

:biggrin-new:
 

Big-Al

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I haven't been on the forum for a while so I'm glad I checked in.

I own two GADs, a GAD-50 and a D-125. I love both guitars. I play out with both of them. I've owned much more expensive guitars that weren't half as good. As far as repairs go, I'm handy and I do my own fret jobs and most other repairs. (My last refret job cost me under $10.) I've never done a neck reset, but I'd be willing to give it a go. However, these guitars probably won't need neck resets until long after I'm too old to play them, so it's probably a moot point.

They may be up for sale some day . . . but only if nobody in the family wants them when I eventually die. :biggrin-new:
 
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adorshki

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Al -

So you'd spend the $$ refretting a Westerly D4, but not an MIC?
Yes.
Already had my D25 fully refretted twice; I'm in it for $1200.00 total now, which was what list was new.
And it's still going strong at 20 years old, and I'm confident I've had far better value and satisfaction from it than I ever would have received from the 3 made-in-Asia guitars that preceded it.
When I had my '80's erea MIK Fender F210, it was getting close to refret time, and the conundrum was "Spend almost or even as much money as a new guitar?"
Then it was stolen ('96) and the decision from a purely cost-effective standpoint was: "Buy something worth repairing"
Fwiw, I've owned two D4's, still own one, the D120 pretty much smokes it
in every way as far as sound & playability - fit & finish on the MIC is better.
The D4 is outta here as soon as I have time & inclination to sell it.
Admittedly I don't watch used listings on the GAD's, but I got a sneaking suspicion you'll get better money out of the D4's than could be had for the D120.
I'll repeat, I'm just postulating reasons that may tend to keep the value of them down in the used market.
It may have nothing to do with quality or tone.

If I needed a replacement bridge for a D4, I'd probably get
it carefully removed and have one made - if I liked the MIC enough to keep it,
I'd do the same for it.
We have a member (Cutrofiano) who sanded the bridge off of his during the course of a finish repair (to poly, which involved removing the finish completely) so now he's SOL without spending big bucks to get one made without a template..
Cordoba sent him a bridge that didn't fit.
TWICE.

What is the approximate cost of a neck reset for an acoustic?
And what is the approximate cost to have all new frets for an acoustic?
I spoke with my local luthier few days back .
His neck reset price is 850 bucks which includes set up frets and all .
His old price on fret jobs was 250 . Not sure if that went up .
Those prices are on par with prices here in Sillycon Valley.
Something else occurred to me about the MIC's while thinking about the complications of resets, though:
Poly finish
It's gonna be real hard to re-finish that broken neck seam (assuming it's finished over like the USA Guilds)
BUT it's anther area of repairability where genuine NCL has a definite advantage.
He said he will not work on MIC guitars . I did not press him for his reasons .
It might be interesting to find out.
Makes me wonder if he's run into too many construction quirks or difficulties, like what kind of glue is used in the joints. Titebond not such a big deal to break loose.
Epoxy?
ONE and DONE.
NO hope of resetting an epoxied neck joint, if it was used.
And not to put you "on the spot", I do get that if you love a guitar the sentimental value may outweigh the economic issues, but when you DO finally want to refret the BR, who ya gonna call?
As to wood grades we know USA stock is pretty good stuff . In China I’m not sure , I feel in some cases grading could be inconsistent.
That's one of the reasons Fender bought all the wood themselves and had it delivered to Grand Reward.
Have no clue what Cordoba's doing now.
I wonder what parts availability is like for the MIC Guilds, in China, compared to parts for US-built ones. Just a thought.
It occurs to me they aren't in business to support a brand name with factory/warranty repair capability, they're contract manufacturers for various brands.
It wouldn't surprise me if there ARE no repair parts inventories beyond a certain number that may have been made and shipped out with the guitars, if that even.
OR perhaps where certain generic items like endpins and bridgepins are used over a variety of brands and models.
Otherwise I suspect it's:
"Hey we contracted to deliver a certain number of guitars (with maybe a production tolerance for over/underrun) and that's what we did.
And here's the leftover materials you also own as stipulated in the contract."
 
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Bonneville88

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If there's somewhere I can order a replacement bridge for my D4 without sending the existing one,
that's guaranteed to fit as well as the original, post a link... I might need one.

Poly vs Nitro... we've sprayed quite a bit of both, to say the least... each has it's place, each has strengths and weaknesses.

Fwiw...we touch up things all the time.

Poly is here to stay. But... not sure if any higher-end acoustic guitar makers use it.

"Buy something worth repairing"
"It may have nothing to do with quality or tone."

Exactly - if the quality is a least good and the tone is better than good, it might just be
worth repairing!
 

adorshki

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If there's somewhere I can order a replacement bridge for my D4 without sending the existing one,
that's guaranteed to fit as well as the original, post a link... I might need one.
http://www.guitarchives.nl/guitarsgalore/
I think you'll know this guy.
And I got a sneaking suspicion he won't have spares for MIC guitars....

Poly vs Nitro... we've sprayed quite a bit of both, to say the least... each has it's place, each has strengths and weaknesses.

Fwiw...we touch up things all the time.

Poly is here to stay. But... not sure if any higher-end acoustic guitar makers use it.
In fact, Taylor does, if you consider them "high end".
Maybe that's part of why they all sound so much alike.....
(ok I admit that was snarky, but I couldn't resist.)
And I'm not trying to refute your observations.
I'm still primarily focused on why MIC's don't get no respect at resale time

"Buy something worth repairing"
"It may have nothing to do with quality or tone."

Exactly - if the quality is a least good and the tone is better than good, it might just be
worth repairing!
BUT taking two of my quotes and juxtaposing 'em out of context doesn't exactly make me agree with your conclusion.
I don't agree with the blanket contention the quality is at least as good (although I believe that according to your definitions you believe your D120 is a better guitar than your D4's. It might actually be.)
If it were, numerous GAD owners wouldn't have bothered to acquire USA-built models.
And although I meant to, I forgot to say earlier on that I "get" that a guitar might be "worth repairing" based on sentimental value rather than "market value", and I reiterate, I'm just exploring why the MIC's don't get no respect at resale/appraisal time time.
Maybe they will in coming years, much like Japanese cars are only just starting to get some respect from serious collectors.
 

Rich Cohen

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Depends on where you go and who does the work...
Around here, St. Louis MO area, neck resets on an acoustic guitar are now
+/- $300 to $450, complete refret +/- $225 to $350.
All that can vary depending on what if anything else is needed.

My luthier here in central Virginia charges $250 for a neck reset.

RC
 

Bill Ashton

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Actually, Huss & Dalton uses a "synthetic" finish, not sure if poly- or a urethane. Hard to tell from the finished product. Also, a bolt-on neck in a similar manner to a Collings, not sure how they handle a neck set...if in fact any have needed one.
 

adorshki

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My luthier here in central Virginia charges $250 for a neck reset.
With or without re-fret?
Frank Ford recommends it for example, due to the fact that fretboard itself can torque out of line during the process, or may already have deformed; and chances are it will need to be planed to actually achieve optimum alignment, and that will require fret removal anyway.
Last time cost of a reset came up, the question of what goes into the "price" was fairly well dissected and those "lowball" figures generally didn't take into account other procedures that most would consider important, and which when added to the basic cost of the simple R&R of the neck, brought the final price of a "Complete" reset including re-finish of the joint, back into the $800.00 range at the low end: "If I recall correctly".
Here in Sillycon Valley, if you want it done right the first time, and all the way to the finish touchup, and returned to you strung up with a good setup and free setup adjustment if needed, on a Guild which have reputation for being very difficult to reset, you're looking at $1200.00 easy at a place like Gryphon, where Frank Ford himself works.
IF they'll take it and you can hack the wait time.
 

Rayk

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Al , I’ll go out on a limb and say it’s Glue , Wood quialty and value .

My luthier did not point fingers at a brand he might not even had seen a mic guild on his bench to date .

He did my bridge replacement on my blueridge the day after I bought it . He did say that Ebony used was very low grade . If that transfers to neck woods there’s a big issue come reset time .

I’m sure many have seen bad neck wood at least I have were it breaks off easy very , weak stuff some I’ve seen looks like rotten dried out wood inside the break but this is on cheaper guitars .

Then the glue question from what I hear they don’t let go and are much harder to get off . ( I picture our member who had the heal snap off his neck reset of the f 20 from what looked like a mallet hit )

Then you have the value side , hypothetically to me my guitar is priceless but the book says it’s worth 300 bucks the repair is 800.00

I would have to ask the owner to pay up front lol . I’m sure it’s not a normal case where a low valued guitar gets an extensive high priced repair . The biggest concern wood be the owner saying forget it keep the guitar it’s not worth it after the luthier has it finished.

Then he’s stuck , is it worth it to go to court over a 300 dollar guitar with 800 bucks of retail priced repairs ?

The Mic Guilds need to go bolt on best way to go if ya ask me .
 

Charlie Bernstein

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. . . My guess is that the active folks on the forum are pretty serious Guild lovers, and thus, of course buy the higher end Guilds. . . .
I used to have (and love) a sixties D-25. Not high end at all, but great to play and hear. Now I have a seventies D-30, also not high-end. It' so good that I'm selling my seventies Martin D-28 because it's redundant.

Plus, the Guilds were union-made in the shade, upping the cool quotient exponentially.

Not that I wouldn't kill for an aged-in-the-barrel D-55 or G-75. Maybe in another life . . . .
 
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Bill Ashton

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Charlie, what happened to the wonderful Martin D-18 you had...that weekend of the amplifer workshop :biggrin-new: First one I had ever played, and you knpw how the heart is about the first time...
 

Big-Al

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Let's not forget one of the major differences . . .

The "Westerly Collection" Guilds are made using accurate plans, specifications, and data based on the best examples that FMIC could obtain of vintage Guilds. They are made on modern precision CNC equipment to ISO standards in a state of the art climate controlled facility.

The "Westerly Rhode Island" Guilds were made to specifications that seemed to change from year to year on aging manual equipment in a dilapidated building with poor humidity control and a leaky roof.

It's no wonder that the Westerly USA made guitars are consistently better. :biggrin-new:
 
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Grassdog

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When I took the plunge and bought a new F-1512E Westerly Collection 12 string (MIC) I have to admit it never once entered my mind whether I'd have a problem with replacement parts or something as far down the road as getting the guitar re-fretted or neck reset. All I cared about was the playability and tone - which are excellent BTW in the one I bought. I will say that I was getting frustrated finding a vintage Guild 12 that didn't have something or other that needed work and I was going to have to put another $500 - $700 into it. I know there are good vintage ones out there if someone is willing to be patient enough but I'd had a couple of less than ideal experiences going the vintage route (buying online via Ebay and Reverb). So when I happened to play the F-1512E and this thing sounds great and is set up perfectly - and I know I can give it the proper care and humidification from day one so it will stay in optimal playing condition - and it doesn't break the bank, well that seemed like a good thing. Maybe a better replacement part market will spring up and/or more luthiers will work on them as these GAD guitars age and more people are getting work done on them but I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
 

Bill Ashton

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I bought an F512 from our (once) favorite Central Massachusetts music store new, and maybe a few weeks later had the chance to try a new 1512. I could have saved myself about $1500 had I swallowed my pride and bought the GAD. Every bit the guitar my 512 was, perhaps the finish was slightly better on the NH build. That 1512 was a nice guitar, but realistically had I tried that first I would not have believed it. Alas, the 512 is now gone to a new owner, for as much as I lusted after it, I just did not play it :chargrined:
 
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