How do you EQ Your Archtop Sound?

PittPastor

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When you play your Archtop through the house PA system (If you do) what are you doing to shape your sound? Are you adding any effects, or keeping it clean? Do you EQ it to balance the strings?

I ask because I have tried different things with my Savoy, and finally just ended up plugging it straight into our soundboard. It was OK, but the bass strings sounded pretty wide and almost borderline feedback-y when I strummed hard. I wish I could get the balanced sound of the strings unplugged. I'm not sure if that is an EQ battle or just the way it goes.

Does the question make sense? Any one have any suggestions as to what they do?

TIA!
 

JohnW63

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I don't play into a PA, so I don't have a direct answer for you. Could it be that is the frequency that your guitar will feed back at ? It is a hollow body guitar, after all. What if you put painters tape over the f holes as an experiment , like a feedback buster ?
 

Aleph

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I would try to EQ out the offending frequency. Any board should have the minimum EQ on board.
 

PittPastor

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I don't play into a PA, so I don't have a direct answer for you. Could it be that is the frequency that your guitar will feed back at ? It is a hollow body guitar, after all. What if you put painters tape over the f holes as an experiment , like a feedback buster ?

It's worth a shot!

I would try to EQ out the offending frequency. Any board should have the minimum EQ on board.

It has a basic Low, Mid, High. I played with it some without much luck. I'll try to see if I can get someone to do it while I play. That will probably be a better way of adjusting it.
 

Sal

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Hello PittPastor, nice guitar that Savoy! Have you considered the strings you are using? I don't think the DeArmond Rhythm Chief installed on the Savoy would react well to standard acoustic strings. Copper and bronze are non-ferrous metals and that pickup is magnetic. There are highbred strings available for this, maybe google around and see what others are using.


My old Gibson L-50 archtop has a new Fishman piezo bridge and an old floating Rhythm Chief style pickup at the neck. I use Zebra strings from DR, they're a combination of bronze and steel wound side by side. I get a nice acoustic sound from the piezo into a Fishman Aura, and more electric crunch from the neck pickup.


Good luck!
 

PittPastor

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Hello PittPastor, nice guitar that Savoy! Have you considered the strings you are using? I don't think the DeArmond Rhythm Chief installed on the Savoy would react well to standard acoustic strings. Copper and bronze are non-ferrous metals and that pickup is magnetic. There are highbred strings available for this, maybe google around and see what others are using.

That is an interesting idea. I have played around with a couple of different string sets. Right now I am using D'Addario ECG25 Chromes Flat Wound Electric Guitar Strings, Light, 12-52. Any thoughts on these?
 

Sal

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I've no thoughts on your D'Addario strings but it sounds like you are on the right track already. Carry on!
 

Mr. Lumbergh

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When you play your Archtop through the house PA system (If you do) what are you doing to shape your sound? Are you adding any effects, or keeping it clean? Do you EQ it to balance the strings?

I ask because I have tried different things with my Savoy, and finally just ended up plugging it straight into our soundboard. It was OK, but the bass strings sounded pretty wide and almost borderline feedback-y when I strummed hard. I wish I could get the balanced sound of the strings unplugged. I'm not sure if that is an EQ battle or just the way it goes.

Does the question make sense? Any one have any suggestions as to what they do?

TIA!

Couple of questions:
1. Have you tried angling the pickup away from the bass side?
2. Have you tried using a preamp or direct in box? I find that a PA generally doesn't match well with a guitar pickup because of impedance mismatch. A preamp or DI box can help with that.
 

Aleph

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It has a basic Low, Mid, High. I played with it some without much luck. I'll try to see if I can get someone to do it while I play. That will probably be a better way of adjusting it.

Oh, ok.

Do you have an EQ pedal? Just sold an old ibanez from the late 80's early 90's that had 6 or 7 bands. I guess these EQ pedals (from any brand) are still available new.
 
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adorshki

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Couple of questions:
1. Have you tried angling the pickup away from the bass side?
2. Have you tried using a preamp or direct in box? I find that a PA generally doesn't match well with a guitar pickup because of impedance mismatch. A preamp or DI box can help with that.

Hi Mr. L, NO snark intended but PP has gone into some detail describing his set-up in previous posts.
If you click on his name you'll see a "view forum posts" in a pop-up (at least in the desktop version of the forum)
He's gone through quite a journey just deciding what to buy as his first archtop in the last 3or 4 months, and is still learning about his guitar and equipment capabilities.
So just trying to save him having to explain all over again.
Also seeing where he's coming from might give you other ideas to suggest.
And although I'm no electric expert by any means, I don't think his floating p/u will pivot in a way that allows moving it away from the bass strings, photos in this thread:.
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?194920-Happy-Birthday-to-me-New-Guild-Day-Savoy-A150
 

PittPastor

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Couple of questions:
1. Have you tried angling the pickup away from the bass side?
2. Have you tried using a preamp or direct in box? I find that a PA generally doesn't match well with a guitar pickup because of impedance mismatch. A preamp or DI box can help with that.

Angling the pickup is something I haven't tried. I didn't even know it could be done. Do you angling it as in down closer to the top of the guitar? Or angled away so instead of the pickup being perpendicular to the strings they are slightly angled?
 

PittPastor

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Oh, ok.

Do you have an EQ pedal? Just sold an old ibanez from the late 80's early 90's that had 6 or 7 bands. I guess these EQ pedals (from any brand) are still available new.

The Boss VE8 I have has some EQ capabilities. They are sort of buried in the menus. But probably worth going into a little.
 

Mr. Lumbergh

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Angling the pickup is something I haven't tried. I didn't even know it could be done. Do you angling it as in down closer to the top of the guitar? Or angled away so instead of the pickup being perpendicular to the strings they are slightly angled?
Since the pickup is mounted on a small shaft, try rotating it around the shaft such that the treble side sits closer to the strings. You should then be able to lower the gain on the board you're going into while still having a good string-string balance. You might need to gently bend the bracket holding the pickguard to bring it up a hair if the pickup slots over it and/or bend the shaft down towards the top a little.
Another option might be to try a set of strings with a smaller core, such as the Thin Core Boomers. It's almost entirely the core of the wound strings that provide the magnetic interference that the pickup detects when sensing the string; this is why the pole pieces of Strat pickups are often higher for the bass strings. A lighter core will attenuate the wound strings a little and might help with the balance.
I still think a DI box would help too. The Rhythm King has a pretty hot wind, something well suited to plugging into an amp, and a PA is generally looking for a microphone impedance. A DI box will match the guitar's resistance to something the board is designed for. Check out Countryman; they're the standard for a reason.
 
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PittPastor

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Since the pickup is mounted on a small shaft, try rotating it around the shaft such that the treble side sits closer to the strings. You should then be able to lower the gain on the board you're going into while still having a good string-string balance. You might need to gently bend the bracket holding the pickguard to bring it up a hair if the pickup slots over it and/or bend the shaft down towards the top a little.
Another option might be to try a set of strings with a smaller core, such as the Thin Core Boomers. It's almost entirely the core of the wound strings that provide the magnetic interference that the pickup detects when sensing the string; this is why the pole pieces of Strat pickups are often higher for the bass strings. A lighter core will attenuate the wound strings a little and might help with the balance.
I still think a DI box would help too. The Rhythm King has a pretty hot wind, something well suited to plugging into an amp, and a PA is generally looking for a microphone impedance. A DI box will match the guitar's resistance to something the board is designed for. Check out Countryman; they're the standard for a reason.

I thought the BOSS VE8 also performed the DI duties. But that being said, I do have some DIs at the church. I'm not sure the brand, but I will pull them out and have a look.

Thanks!
 

Mr. Lumbergh

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I thought the BOSS VE8 also performed the DI duties. But that being said, I do have some DIs at the church. I'm not sure the brand, but I will pull them out and have a look.

Thanks!

I've never used one of those, but it may still be an impedance issue. If it was designed assuming you'd be plugging in to it with a piezo pickup, the EQ may still be off. I would first try borrowing a guitar amp and playing through that, just to make sure there isn't something else going on; that's the most basic place to start. If you get a good tone out of it, try going direct with one of the DI boxes next. If it then starts to sound boomy again, it's likely that the Rhythm King is a bit much for the board; nearly 16K is a hot wind no matter how you slice it!
If it sounds good though, we've likely narrowed the problem down to the Boss. Before giving up on it though, try running the Boss into the DI (if the sound was good with DI only) and then the board, and see if that doesn't help. If the XLR sounds off, try using a 1/4" instrument cable or vice versa.
Let us know how it goes. If you still aren't able to get a sound you're happy with, describe what each change did for you, that can help with troubleshooting.
 

PittPastor

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I've never used one of those, but it may still be an impedance issue. If it was designed assuming you'd be plugging in to it with a piezo pickup, the EQ may still be off. I would first try borrowing a guitar amp and playing through that, just to make sure there isn't something else going on; that's the most basic place to start. If you get a good tone out of it, try going direct with one of the DI boxes next. If it then starts to sound boomy again, it's likely that the Rhythm King is a bit much for the board; nearly 16K is a hot wind no matter how you slice it!
If it sounds good though, we've likely narrowed the problem down to the Boss. Before giving up on it though, try running the Boss into the DI (if the sound was good with DI only) and then the board, and see if that doesn't help. If the XLR sounds off, try using a 1/4" instrument cable or vice versa.
Let us know how it goes. If you still aren't able to get a sound you're happy with, describe what each change did for you, that can help with troubleshooting.

Troubleshooting steps! Now you're talking my language.

I'll get through these and let you know what I find.

Thanks!
 

Neal

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I play through an Acoustimax floor preamp, which has EQ and a notch filter. It can handle pretty much everything I run through it.
 
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