More on the Gibson front.

dreadnut

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Gibson's acoustic guitars have been a mess for at least 10 years now. I know, some here have gotten good ones, but they shipped way too many defective ones out to the stores. At one store, I pointed out three really obvious defects on a brand new Songwriter to the manager; he said "Yeah, I'm gonna have to talk to the supplier about that."
Talk to the supplier? If it were me, that guitar would have been shipped straight back to the supplier with a note like "Don't send me any more crap like this."

The problem is, Gibson's acoustic manufacturing culture somehow deteriorated to allow these guitars to move on down the manufacturing line (where the defects were produced,) through final QC (you can't inspect quality into a product) and off to shipping. All with high pressure from the corporate muckity-mucks to meet production numbers and ship product. Having spent my career in Manufacturing and QC, I know how it works

Take a brand new Martin, Collings or Taylor, and try to find even the slightest defect. The Gibson name is still iconic, but they'd need a complete re-birth to compete in the American-made acoustic market again.
 

ClydeTower

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Gibson's acoustic guitars have been a mess for at least 10 years now. I know, some here have gotten good ones, but they shipped way too many defective ones out to the stores. At one store, I pointed out three really obvious defects on a brand new Songwriter to the manager; he said "Yeah, I'm gonna have to talk to the supplier about that."
Talk to the supplier? If it were me, that guitar would have been shipped straight back to the supplier with a note like "Don't send me any more crap like this."

The problem is, Gibson's acoustic manufacturing culture somehow deteriorated to allow these guitars to move on down the manufacturing line (where the defects were produced,) through final QC (you can't inspect quality into a product) and off to shipping. All with high pressure from the corporate muckity-mucks to meet production numbers and ship product. Having spent my career in Manufacturing and QC, I know how it works

Take a brand new Martin, Collings or Taylor, and try to find even the slightest defect. The Gibson name is still iconic, but they'd need a complete re-birth to compete in the American-made acoustic market again.

I guess I'm lucky I got a good one... My SJ200 is flawless so I guess I'll count my blessings :)
 

bobouz

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Take a brand new Martin, Collings or Taylor, and try to find even the slightest defect.
Well, it certainly caught my eye when, on the Martin forum, members began posting about their two year old Martins needing neck resets!

Edit just to add: Recently, I purchased a NOS 2015 Gibson J-50 custom shop model from Rainbow Guitars in Tucson, Az. They, as many before them, were in the process of dumping Gibson because of the company's stocking demands. The guitar arrived in absolutely mint condition, with no flaws whatsoever. Tone & playability are stellar, and I consider this to be one of the most satisfying guitar purchases I've ever made (and there's been a whole lot of them!).

Other recent Bozeman-made purchases have included a 2012 J-185, 2013 LG-2, and 2014 J-15. None of these exhibit finish or detail flaws. I don't doubt that there are some clunkers out there, but I'm just saying, there are a whole lot of fine instruments coming out of that factory. Let us hope that Henry hasn't drug them down to the point where a decision is made in some boardroom to shut it down.
 
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Quantum Strummer

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I'm willing to pay a slight premium to buy a American products, if they are of quality. It is difficult for US companies to compete with imports that leverage cheap labor and looser environmental constraints. Poor management only adds to Gibson's challenges.

I can relate to this when it comes to small firms & outfits, regardless of the country they're in. My leather boots and shoes come from a small family-owned English company. They have no US distributor so I've effectively had to import 'em myself. (My mom was born in Scotland, I have family all over the UK and my first set of these boots were a gift from my beloved Scots Auntie…so I guess there's a sentimental connection going on.) Photography is another of my "things" and my camera bags & straps come from a tiny outfit in Hong Kong. Beautifully and artfully made stuff. My recent guitar purchases have been from small builders: one here in the US, one in Canada and one in Germany. All of 'em have been custom jobs. Small makers are definitely worth supporting.

-Dave-
 

Quantum Strummer

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Well, it certainly caught my eye when, on the Martin forum, members began posting about their two year old Martins needing neck resets!

I think it's important to note that squeaky wheels get amplified on the 'nets. No doubt even Collings has shipped some guitars with necks that turned out to be temperamental. Well, maybe one or two. :)

-Dave-
 

Westerly Wood

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I think it's important to note that squeaky wheels get amplified on the 'nets. No doubt even Collings has shipped some guitars with necks that turned out to be temperamental. Well, maybe one or two. :)

-Dave-

but i hear Collings necks actually reset themselves.
 

Kitarkus

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but i hear Collings necks actually reset themselves.

LOL...its true...I've watched it in process....fascinating.

On a serious note....I'm really drawn to the Gibson's...i like the short scale...the look of many models....and occasionally I like the sound. I've yet to buy one solely because I've never been able to put together sound, looks, and price within a single Gibson transaction.

A few weeks back I pushed the button and bought my first new (as in not previously owned/played) guitar ever. I bought a Martin 000 from a well known dealer sight unseen. It is imo stellar in every respect. I would not purchase a new Gibson sight/unseen under any circumstances. These are my feelings but I don't think that I am alone. This in/of itself is a real problem for Gibson....so throw this one atop their pile of other problems.
 

richardp69

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I've bought numerous Gibsons sight unseen and, except for one instance, have never been disappointed. But then again, I've been told that I typically set the bar lower than most.
 

Westerly Wood

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LOL...its true...I've watched it in process....fascinating.

On a serious note....I'm really drawn to the Gibson's...i like the short scale...the look of many models....and occasionally I like the sound. I've yet to buy one solely because I've never been able to put together sound, looks, and price within a single Gibson transaction.

A few weeks back I pushed the button and bought my first new (as in not previously owned/played) guitar ever. I bought a Martin 000 from a well known dealer sight unseen. It is imo stellar in every respect. I would not purchase a new Gibson sight/unseen under any circumstances. These are my feelings but I don't think that I am alone. This in/of itself is a real problem for Gibson....so throw this one atop their pile of other problems.

oh the 000 Martins are great, especially the rosewood back and side models. And I still want a J-45 and Gibson Dove. But they are way way out of my price range. The local shop here that is a Gibson dealer is already out of stock, every guitar player in town panicked and bought them even if they did not want one, just in case. :)
 

Kitarkus

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every guitar player in town panicked and bought them even if they did not want one, just in case. :)

I'm feeling a bit the same way....continuing to look for a good LPJr....but I am not paying $1400....there ain't no way.
 

Quantum Strummer

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IMO if you want something that sounds more like a classic 1920s–30s Gibson acoustic than anything Gibson makes, check out the Waterloos. They've got that dry, crisp tone. No bling, just good wood and excellent craftsmanship.

-Dave-
 

Westerly Wood

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IMO if you want something that sounds more like a classic 1920s–30s Gibson acoustic than anything Gibson makes, check out the Waterloos. They've got that dry, crisp tone. No bling, just good wood and excellent craftsmanship.

-Dave-

oh i hear great things about Waterloos. Are those modern day?
 

Grassdog

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Gibson's acoustic guitars have been a mess for at least 10 years now.

I'm not sure exactly when Ren Ferguson left Gibson and joined Fender (maybe early 2012), but it's pretty well established there were high quality acoustics coming out of Bozeman up through the end of his tenure with Gibson. Hiring Ren and giving him creative license to revive the Gibson Acoustic brand in Bozeman was maybe the one good decision that Henry did make.
 

Westerly Wood

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I'm not sure exactly when Ren Ferguson left Gibson and joined Fender (maybe early 2012), but it's pretty well established there were high quality acoustics coming out of Bozeman up through the end of his tenure with Gibson. Hiring Ren and giving him creative license to revive the Gibson Acoustic brand in Bozeman was maybe the one good decision that Henry did make.

speaking of which, this authentic Ren custom Gibby slope at the Folk Shop in Tucson:

http://www.thefolkshop.com/_p/prd1/4675725523/product/gibson-custom-shop-j45-zebrawood
 

bobouz

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I'm not sure exactly when Ren Ferguson left Gibson and joined Fender (maybe early 2012), but it's pretty well established there were high quality acoustics coming out of Bozeman up through the end of his tenure with Gibson. Hiring Ren and giving him creative license to revive the Gibson Acoustic brand in Bozeman was maybe the one good decision that Henry did make.

Ren was already working for Flatiron in Bozeman, when Flatiron approached Henry about making Gibson's mandolins. In Ren's own telling of the story, Henry essentially said, "How about if I just sue you & put you out of business?" What a great guy, huh? He then bought Flatiron & was fortunate enough to have Ren be part of the transition.

The bigger question for me was, how could Henry be so short-sighted or cheap as to let Ren leave Gibson in 2012? Still, even with Ren's departure, everything was in place to continue making fine instruments, and my post-Ren Gibson purchases through the 2015 model year have been totally satisfying.
 

Westerly Wood

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Ren was already working for Flatiron in Bozeman, when Flatiron approached Henry about making Gibson's mandolins. In Ren's own telling of the story, Henry essentially said, "How about if I just sue you & put you out of business?" What a great guy, huh? He then bought Flatiron & was fortunate enough to have Ren be part of the transition.

wow, Henry's story keeps getting worse. who hired that guy then and thought it a great idea at the time? again, further confirms my friend's story who was a good friend of Ren, "Oh Ren got screwed by Gibson".
 
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