Lifting bridge fix D4-NT

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bbmclean1st

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Just picked up a D4 in decent shape off CL for a good price with the only problem being that the bridge is lifting a bit. Since I’m not too invested in this guitar and it’s a lesser model I’m considering regluing the bridge myself.

Wondering if I need to remove, sand and reglue the bridge or can get by with shooting glue inside and clamping it down from here. Seems like a fairly straightforward endeavor and I’m generally adept at woodwork.
 

evenkeel

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I would strongly suggest you do not try and shoot glue under the bridge, then clamp. It's far better to remove the bridge, sand and clean off the surfaces, then re-glue and clamp properly. I've removed a few Guild bridges and while tedious it's not hard. Careful application of heat (I use a clothing iron) and a thin metal paint scraper to gently lift the bridge and it will come off. Go slowly, don't force things, let the heat do the work and the bridge will come off fairly clean. The sand and clean the surfaces of any old glue and you're ready to re-glue and clamp.
 

CosmicArkie

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In the interest of protecting the finish, I'm prone to making a shield of cardboard backed aluminum foil (with a rectangular hole for the bridge cut out in the center) to reflect the heat from the soundboard. Especially if this is your first time.
 

geoguy

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Are you certain that it is lifting? I believe that Guild bridges typically have a bit of "relief" around the outer edge, because Guild bridges are installed so that they slightly overlap the finished soundboard.
 

bbmclean1st

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Yeah, kinda figured the best way to do it was remove and prep the surface although I was hoping for an easy way out. It’s most definitely lifting but not too bad so far.

I’m traveling to France next week and had the idea of bringing it along to play while I’m there and then hopefully selling it at a premium to a guitar shop as I’m sure American Guilds must be a rarity there.
 

docfishr

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Ditto on Evenkeel's advice and I suggest that you lightly scribe around the bridge edges with a razor before you start heating and lifting. You don't know the history of that guitar and it is always possible that someone tried to repair it by shooting a thin CA glue in there. That stuff does not let go with heat as readily as the factory glue and it can lift wood off the top leaving gouges. If that happens you can fill them under the bridge. But if it tears out beyond the edges it gets ugly. So I recommend lightly scribing the edges first and begin lifting one end just a little first. Then go to the opposite end and lift it a little. Then work your work the back and front edges free and continue working the blade toward the center. Hopefully there is no foreign glue in there and it will come off clean. Be sure you have a way of clamping the re-glued bridge evenly and strong enough to get some squees-out then wipe it off immediately.

As for an easy way out, an alternative if it is not to bad is the Bridge Doctor. They are inexpensive, easy to install, and do work well. The downside is that you have to drill a hole through the bridge and top which gets covered with a MOP dot but will diminish the resale value a bit. But not as much as an ugly tear-out repair.

Good luck
 

adorshki

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Are you certain that it is lifting? I believe that Guild bridges typically have a bit of "relief" around the outer edge, because Guild bridges are installed so that they slightly overlap the finished soundboard.

In Westerly at least, it's true that the bridges were installed after the tops were finished but the bridges were intended to be fully glued, no gap should be measurable.
What happens is that typically there was an area of overlap of the bridge edges on the finish, and the hideglue (bridge)-to-finish bond is stronger than the finish-to-top bond so the glue can pull up the finish under tension.
I've got it on my F65ce and I plan to finally get the bridge re-set this year.
It's still a form of lift and some small amount of tone is lost, was well as a negative effect on geometry.
I don't recall hearing about this problem in Coronas or Tacomas, suggesting they did something to remedy it, or maybe were simply more careful when gluing bridges.
In New Hartford they did in fact counter-sink the tops a small bit to accept a mating block machined on the bridges, to ensure a good secure glue joint without the glue-to-finish bond or " glue squeeze-out issues" when assembling. That may be the" relief" you were thinking of?
Still, I don't think there should be a measurable gap on those tops either, or at least too tight to be able to slide a sheet of paper under the edge.


As for an easy way out, an alternative if it is not to bad is the Bridge Doctor. They are inexpensive, easy to install, and do work well. The downside is that you have to drill a hole through the bridge and top which gets covered with a MOP dot but will diminish the resale value a bit. But not as much as an ugly tear-out repair.
Bridge Doctor's intended to address bellying in front of the bridge, not close the gap created by lifting.
Unless the bridge's properly glued, it can still be leaning forward and thus so can the saddle, effectively lowering action and affecting intonation.
 
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krysh

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Forget the idea to bring a guitar with rosewood to europe without a proper cites certificate. And yes, we have a lot usa guilds over here, too. And if you bring a guitar into the us you also will need a cites certificate. The times of cool guitar deals are over, without the certificate.
 

docfishr

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Yes, the bridge Doctor is intended to address bellying, but it has been my experience that when you tighten the screw that goes through the bridge and top into the lever block of the Bridge Doctor it does a fine job of eliminating a small amount of bridge lift.
 

adorshki

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Yes, the bridge Doctor is intended to address bellying, but it has been my experience that when you tighten the screw that goes through the bridge and top into the lever block of the Bridge Doctor it does a fine job of eliminating a small amount of bridge lift.
Got it, and yes the OP does say it's "small". And I don't have personal experience with 'em.
And I forgot to mention I do agree with your initial advice that it may lower resale value somewhat but is still preferable to a bad re-glue job.
 

bbmclean1st

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I’ve got a UK passport and would imagine I wouldn’t have much trouble selling it to a guitar shop. Saying they’ll require a CITES certificate for that level or transaction? It’s got a RW fretboard and bridge but that’s very common.
 

evenkeel

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Docfisher makes a very good point about scribing around the edge. That will make the removal much cleaner.
 

adorshki

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I’ve got a UK passport and would imagine I wouldn’t have much trouble selling it to a guitar shop. Saying they’ll require a CITES certificate for that level or transaction? It’s got a RW fretboard and bridge but that’s very common.
And that's why there was such a hue and cry when the remaining species of unlisted rosewood became listed in 2016.

IF you intend to sell it you need a CITES declaration that the guitar was built prior to Jan. 2nd 2017 just to get it into the country legally. (This would prove the rosewood was "pre-CITES" and therefore exempt from the current restrictions on rosewood)
In 2016 ALL species of rosewood became CITES listed.
If it's intended for commercial transaction, it needs CITES documentation, period.

Everything you need to know here, about obtaining a US certificate:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/sh...-Regs-for-US-citizens-Official-FWS-newsletter
See question number 51 specifically addressing single instruments intended for sale in another country.
As a UK citizen you probably still need one to take it out of the US for commercial purposes.
And you'll probably need one from France allowing it in, as well.
Trust Krysh, I'm sure he knows what's happening over on "the continent".
Bottom line, if you're planning on going next week, you probably don't have enough time to get certificates of any kind, even a personal instrument certificate which specifically disallows sale of the instrument anyway..
 
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bbmclean1st

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Ah... that will not be an issue. If I sell this guitar in Bordeaux I’ll post a photo of it hanging in the shop!
 

krysh

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good luck then. without a certificate, customs is allowed just to confiscate and destroy your guitar.
 

swiveltung

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Shipped a '37 Martin to Canada last year with no mention or issue regarding CITES. But be cautious for sure.
 
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