Bi-Sonics vs. Guild Bass Humbuckers?

Minnesota Flats

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I've never played through anything but the Guild RI Bi-Sonics (as far as my experience with Guild basses goes, I mean). Can anybody point me towards decent sound clips of, say, a Bi-Sonic-loaded, NS SF-II and, say a 1990s, Guild Bass Humbucker-loaded SF-II playing the same licks through the same amp with the same EQ settings? I'm really curious to hear the differences.

Many seem to be of the opinion that the Guild Bass Humbuckers are noticeably inferior to Bi-Sonics. I'd like to hear for myself how they differ, tonally.

I searched for previous such posts, but either nothing like this has been posted before or I used the wrong search parameters.

Thanks!
 

fronobulax

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Never seen that comparison. Not sure too many folks here have a SF with humbuckers and not certain that the humbuckers in ~1970-77 are the same pickups that are in the 90's reissues. If my goal were to compare pickups I might expand my search to include a JS with humbuckers and with vintage bisonics (or replacements).

I will say that there are sounds I can get out of a JS with humbuckers that I cannot get out of any of my "bisonics". I also note that some of the tone I once thought was the product of a bisonic is actually due to the hollow body. I hear something in the Starfires that I don't hear in Novak equipped Betts Bass. While I will also say one pickup is better than the other it should be understood that I prefer the tone available from one much more than the tone available from the other. It' definitely a preference although one shared with an awful lot of people :)
 

Minnesota Flats

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Well, beggars can't be choosers: how would you contrast your JS-II bridge pup with your NS SFI? Have any sound clips of either/both or know of any specific YouTube vids that, to your ear, accurately demonstrate the difference?

(Though I do agree with you that solid-vs.-semi-hollow body will skew the comparison)

This is about all I've found (though this guy seems to be a bit confused about what pups he's got):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgCKW2l2raI

Thanks for responding.
 
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hieronymous

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This isn't what you asked for but it's the only recording I've got of the Guild humbuckers.

https://soundcloud.com/stanleylighthead/walk-right-through-your-door-revisited

You can hear pretty much the direct sound at the beginning, soloed at 1:02, then EQ'd at 1:05 (I added in the low end with an Alembic SF-2 Superfilter). I'm pretty sure it's both pickups full on. At 4:20 I EQ it much more radically (again with the SF-2) for the solo.

It really probably won't help you too much - it's probably 1st generation humbuckers from about 1971 with flats on a fretless, but figured I'd share anyway. I really wasn't too happy with the pickups - they are super-powerful which might have been cool on a fretted but lacked subtlety. My memory is that the bridge pickup didn't really add much in the way of highs which a) would make sense if the pickups are overwound but b) could also be attributable to the fretless/flats combination.

My understanding was that the Bi-Sonic was a nice, full-range pickup - as opposed to the mid-heavy split-Precision Bass pickup for example - which could then be manipulated by filters (i.e., Alembic on the early basses used by Phil Lesh & Jack Casady). The humbuckers were super-powerful high-ouput but with completely different frequency response - I know at least one person that liked them for certain things, mainly pushing a big tube amp?

Hope this helps!
 

Minnesota Flats

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Hey, hieronymous, thanks a lot! Nice playing! Very little "mwah" for a fretless: I don't think I would've even guessed it was one if you hadn't mentioned it.

Your guitar player kinda started going all Mike Stern on ya in the middle, there.

From what little I've heard, seems like the Guild Humbuckers have far more clarity and definition than those found in Gibby EB/SG type basses.
 

hieronymous

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Hey, hieronymous, thanks a lot! Nice playing! Very little "mwah" for a fretless: I don't think I would've even guessed it was one if you hadn't mentioned it.

Your guitar player kinda started going all Mike Stern on ya in the middle, there.

From what little I've heard, seems like the Guild Humbuckers have far more clarity and definition than those found in Gibby EB/SG type basses.

Thanks - yeah, I'm definitely not going for mwah - I know that's what a lot of people automatically think of when they think fretless but I basically want it to sound like a regular old-school bass.

The Guild humbuckers are definitely different from the Gibson mudbucker. I've got a '68 EB-2 and had a '68 Gibson Melody Maker Bass - those are like almost completely all low frequencies, with extreme high output! I like 'em though for certain things. Another interesting humbucker is the one on the second-generation Fender Telecaster Bass (1st gen had single-coil P-Bass). Also high output, but with more mids than the Gibsons. And also not particularly well-loved - similar to the Guild hb's? (reception that is)
 

mavuser

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the 90s Guild bass humbucker is different than the 70s one. the 70s one is super hot, the 90s one is much closer to planet earth as far as the heat goes!

also the 90s SF bass is 1/4 inch skinner in the body than 60s, 70, newark st...

i like the 90s buckers a lot, and actually I could do that comparisson for you since I have a 90s SF Bass, and a GSR-M-85-II bass w NS pickups, but that would be more into spring or summer (its still ski season, winter is back! again!)

the 90s bucker sounds closer to a fender tone. the 70s bucker flirts with that when the deep hard switch is engaged (cutting the heat/signal drastically)

i would choose a 90s SF bass over a NS SF bass, but if i had a NS SF bass i would not change the pickups
 

Minnesota Flats

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"I would choose a 90s SF bass over a NS SF bass, but if I had a NS SF bass I would not change the pickups"

Nor would I, since I'm very happy with them. I'm just curious about the Guild Buckers, never having had an opportunity to use them (or Dark Stars or 60s Bi-Sonics, for that matter). I'm late to the Guild bass game, so NS SFs are the only Guilds I've tried.

Nice to have you guys, with your more extensive experience/knowledge here to school me!
 

adorshki

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Nice to have you guys, with your more extensive experience/knowledge here to school me!

Yeah and especially since I'm beginning to believe Guild never made anything the same way for more than 2 consecutive years, let alone all the owner mods to SF Bass due to the Casady/Lesh/Alembic connection.
Even Berry Oakley had an SF Bass.
01383e0b279b961b0846e17126f2e16d.jpg

HE pulled a pickup out and mounted it in a Fender to create the "Tractor".

berry-stereo-tractor-jpg.18150
 

mavuser

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the other cool bass, and probably my favorite of them all, is the super rare 1970 JS-II "Jetstar" with Hagstrom Bisonic in the neck position, and Hagstrom Mini-Hum in the bridge position. I know of six of these to exist, two of which I currently own. If you want to mix up the Bisonic and Mini-Hum Hagstrom tones, this would be the weapon of choice. Also notice no suck switch or deep hard switch on these. (also I have since changed the strings to TI flats)

XfHZpQ.jpg



here she is next to my 2014 GSR-M-85-II from NH, #25 of 25. Two of the rarest Guilds out there

IRCQjO.jpg



heres my 1998 next to a couple of Hoboken's.

krxw.jpg


and in some better light with a 1997 SF-II guitar (which now belongs to another member of this forum)

jxqm.jpg


look at that back in the sunlight!

2pum.jpg



i may sell some things soon. hit me up if u are interested.
 

Minnesota Flats

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That flame maple SF II 'burst Bass in the last 3 shots is particularly drool-worthy. DAY-yum: what a beautiful piece!
 

fronobulax

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This video (linked to above) is bluespicky. If I had to guess it looks like the PU selector is in the bridge only position. The deep/hard switch is in the "less bass" position but that should not matter because the switch only effects the neck PU. That's my intuition from looking.



I'll consider firing up the JS and refreshing my memory. My recollection is that adding the bridge PU has less effect than engaging the deep/hard switch. I briefly bypassed the switch with alligator clips and I think the result was louder and less boomy. If it were getting played I'd consider making that mod permanent. I'll stick with my memory that the neck PU with the deep switch in the bass position and the tone control rolled down is muddy and gooey, to the point of not always being able to discern the pitch.

This raises the question - are there commercial recordings with a humbucker equipped Guild?

The bassist for The Knack (My Sharonna) used a M85-II second generation (or whatever we use to describe the solid version post 1971) which should have had humbuckers as stock. Sheryl Crow also plays a M85-II second generation at times. If you don't know the story behind that, ask :) I seem to recall a Guild ad from the post Bisonic '70's with James Hutchinson endorsing a humbucker equipped Starfire II. It might be interesting to see if he used it on any recordings.

I have only seen one clip with a JS. Taylor Shell of Turkuaz played a JS II at High Sierra a few years ago but it is clearly equipped with a neck Bisonic. I don't recall the bridge PU. See http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?186752-Turkuaz-JS-II-in-action&highlight=Turkuaz or http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?186727-Turkuaz&highlight=Turkuaz
 
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