Gibson Songbird with... Rosewood Saddle?

PittPastor

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I have a friend who recently bought a Gibson Songbird (I want to say something like a '68) off of a retired guy who was selling off his collection.

It had a passive pickup installed in it -- I didn't really see where. I'm guessing after market? IDK.

Anyway, when he plugged it in to the amp it was a really lowend sound. So he took it to his guitar tech, to put in an Baggs Anthem. Problem is the bridge (apparently) is really worn and the saddle is loose, so the tech is suggesting a shim.

Here's the thing, though, the saddle is Gibson's Adjustable thing, and it is made out of rosewood.

Sort of like this (not his actual guitar. I can get pics of it, but don't have them. I only saw it once.)

P1010137.jpg


I was telling him, if it were me, I'd replace the bridge and get a bone saddle put in it, rather than shimming the old one. Guitar is a beauty -- doesn't have the garish songbird white painting on it. Just a really nice wood tone. Here's a pic of him with it:

9dabCB6.jpg


I don't think he is buying it as an investment. He just always wanted the Gibson Songbird. He wants to play it, not sell it.

What would you do if it were yours?
 

AcornHouse

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At least its not one of the plastic bridge models.
Yes, I'd just replace the saddle with a bone saddle. You'd have to get it made, they don't come pre-made that wide, but either Bob Colosi or any decent luthier can make you one.
 

dbirchett

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Just a slight correction. That is a Hummingbird not a Songbird. Agree with AH. Get a new one made. The guitar should sound brighter. If he prefers the darker sound then get another one made out of rosewood.
 

bobouz

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Gibson's adjustable bridges often get a bad rap, but many folks have discovered a deeper beauty that lies within.

First of all, ditch the rosewood saddle, and experiment with bone, tusq (they make a replacement), or my favorite - the original ceramic saddles from the early years of these bridges.

If the bridge and it's associated parts are structurally intact, what you end up with is sort of a mini archtop bridge scenario, where the vibrations are transferred from the saddle to the metal post, and then directly to the spruce top & bridgeplate. The mild metallic overtones produced by this set up can be quite appealing.

Of course, the body has to be a good one to begin with. If it is, the guitar will sound good either way. But the only way to get that metallic quality is with the adjustable hardware in place.

Even the plastic bridges, if structurally intact, will deliver the same qualities. With the plastic bridge, the archtop-type coupling to the body is even more pronounced. Because the plastic bridge is hollow, it essentially does nothing other than keep the bridge pins in place, so all string vibrations are flowing directly through the metal posts to the spruce top, without the structural stiffening of a glued rosewood bridge.

I've owned three Gibsons from the mid '60s with the plastic bridge & ceramic saddle (and still have one). Of the three, one had structural issues in the bridge area, so I swapped it out for an ebony bridge with a traditional bone saddle setup. Unfortunately, the tone I craved from that instrument disappeared! So sometimes, conventional wisdoms only amount to best guess generalizations - especially in the whacky world of guitars.

For a video peek of what this setup can do, go to Norman's Rare Guitars video review from, I believe, last Friday. The guitar being reviewed is an early '60s Gibson Hummingbird with it's original plastic bridge & ceramic saddle.
 

Quantum Strummer

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My B-25N (c. 1966) has an adjustable rosewood saddle. I love the guitar's sound and wouldn't dream of putting a different saddle on it.

-Dave-
 

PittPastor

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Just a slight correction. That is a Hummingbird not a Songbird.

Nice eye! I don't know my Gibsons, clearly.

Gibson's adjustable bridges often get a bad rap, but many folks have discovered a deeper beauty that lies within.
First of all, ditch the rosewood saddle, and experiment with bone, tusq (they make a replacement), or my favorite - the original ceramic saddles from the early years of these bridges.

OK, I will pass it on!

My B-25N (c. 1966) has an adjustable rosewood saddle. I love the guitar's sound and wouldn't dream of putting a different saddle on it.

I don't think it is sound for him, it is mainly that he cant get his Anthem to work in the current bridge without shimming it. I haven't even had a chance to play it yet, so I have no idea...

At least its not one of the plastic bridge models.
Yes, I'd just replace the saddle with a bone saddle. You'd have to get it made, they don't come pre-made that wide, but either Bob Colosi or any decent luthier can make you one.

I'll pass all of this on.

Thanks guys!
 

bobouz

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My B-25N (c. 1966) has an adjustable rosewood saddle. I love the guitar's sound and wouldn't dream of putting a different saddle on it.
-Dave-
We have the exact same guitar, except mine is the 1966 Epiphone Cortez clone of the B-25n. Like yours, it came with the rosewood saddle. These are such great little guitars, and they do put out a lovely sound with the rosewood saddle - if you like it, that's all that matters. But it's a bit darker overall with the rosewood saddle, and I want the maximum amount of percussive pop possible for my fingerpicking style. The old ceramic saddles seem to deliver that extremely well.

Luckily, I had a ceramic saddle left over from a '65 B-25n (which was the one that lost it's tone when I did the ebony bridge/bone saddle swap). They're pretty hard to find these days. Putting that ceramic saddle into the Cortez put the tone exactly where I like it to be. When I found this guitar, I honestly was amazed at the bridge's structural integrity, which matches the structural condition of the overall guitar. Tons of weather checking, but that's a '60s Gibson requirement!
 
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