What does the "Navarre" designation mean?

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Howdy. First post, and it's because I can't figure out how to search this question. Kinda nice to take the plunge and join though.

I recently encountered a well-used F48 from like 1973 which I really like. It seems expensive at >$1K but it turns out to be a rare enough model to make internet research sketchy.

One link is for an F48 **Navarre**. What does that mean? Does it relate to a special set of appointments? If so, were any F48s not Navarres?

Many thanks.
 

txbumper57

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Navarre was the name designation for Guilds Original Jumbo Acoustic Body shape and style from the the 50's. So in reality a F48, F50 maple, F50R and any other jumbos were all considered to be Navarre models. The use of that designation slowly faded over time. No special appointments just the shape and size of the guitar. Hope this info helps and Welcome to LTG! Lots of great folks here with tons of info that love to share.

TX
 

AcornHouse

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Welcome!
Guild has gone through phases where they named their guitars thematically. At this period, they were using Spanish region names (Navarre, Aragon, Grenada, etc.) In the 80s, the electrics were getting fighter plane type names (Aviator, Liberator, Detonator, etc.) Some periods, they just used the model numbers with no names.
 

Stuball48

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Welcome Scratch Plate and you will be happy you took the plunge. And start saving your coins because stopping at one Guild is, nearly, impossible.
All questions will be answered here.
 

richardp69

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Hi and welcome. I have a F 48 as well and consider it to be a really fine Guild. I love the growl and thump of a good Jumbo guitar, Guild or otherwise.
 
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Actually “Navarre” helps me to ask another question. Appointments aside, what are the differences between an F48 and a 1970s F30 (also mahogany)? From what I’ve seen the F30 sells for quite a bit more... why? F30 models are mostly Aragon size, but isn’t “48” a higher model than a mere “30”?

Continued thanks - btw my plan w this pesky F48 is to give the cosmos 1 month to find someone else to buy it... and then make my (better-informed) offer. Continued thanks, and fingers crossed!
 

fronobulax

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Actually “Navarre” helps me to ask another question. Appointments aside, what are the differences between an F48 and a 1970s F30 (also mahogany)? From what I’ve seen the F30 sells for quite a bit more... why? F30 models are mostly Aragon size, but isn’t “48” a higher model than a mere “30”?

The error here is assuming that there is any rhyme or reason to Guild model numbers. That error is compounded when you compare model numbers "across years".

Off the top of my head, I'd say the F48 is a jumbo sized instrument and that all F30's are orchestra sized instruments so by asking the question you are already comparing two different sized instruments.
 

adorshki

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Actually “Navarre” helps me to ask another question. Appointments aside, what are the differences between an F48 and a 1970s F30 (also mahogany)? From what I’ve seen the F30 sells for quite a bit more... why?
An F48 was an unusual and short-lived version of the 17" wide lower bout F-body, it was basically a mahogany-bodied F50 (arched maple back and sides.)
F50's and F50R's (rosewood flatback body) are much more common and sought after than F48's (so are F30's, explaining their higher average selling price) and that probably is reflected in the average F48's selling price.
Reading between the lines, one suspects the reason the F48 was only in production for something like 4 years "IIRC", is that it simply didn't offer acoustic properties that were highly sought after compared to its sister models. But there could be other reasons like a bad economy and poor sales in general.
'Hog was very successful in the next-size down (16" lower bout) F47, however.
(An F47 was based on the 16" lower bout F40 in much the same way the F48 was based on the F50.)
Also, there are a lot of much newer F30's around which have more desirable build details than some of the vintage instruments, to some buyers.
And its size did vary by fractions (1/4-1/2") from the "average" 15" lower bout spec, over the years.
F30's also benefit from famous artist association with people like Paul Simon and Mississippi John Hurt.
F30 models are mostly Aragon size, but isn’t “48” a higher model than a mere “30"?
"In the beginning", with the F-models, the width of the lower bout decreased with the corresponding lower model number but "bling level" could and did change over time.
So you could actually have an F30R from the mid-'70's that had the inlays and G-shield headstock of an F50. One of those F30's would command a premium in the market.
10 years later when the dreadnoughts were brought into the line the "bling level" did have much more correlation to higher model numbers and body woods.
So those are the "broad strokes", but over time it's become obvious to most of us "old-timers" that Guild kept changing up specs on the basic formulas of almost if not every model they made.
And then there were the model number changes when the specs stayed basically the same....no joke!
:glee:

And just for perspective, one of my major gripes with Guild's current owners is their application of the F40 designation to what they themselves acknowledge was the F48, on their webpage.
Sacrilege!
F40's, (the "Valencia"), as one of Guild's most versatile body sizes, were always 16" lower bout F-bodies and yielded more variations of body depth/back configuration and tonewood options than any other model except possibly the generic dreadnought shape.
I just haven't counted formally yet.
:friendly_wink:
 
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