Westerly Series models discontinued

merlin6666

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It looks like the OM-150 and F-150 models have been discontinued for 2018. Some retailers blow them out now reduced by about 30%. Interesting that Guild/Cordoba is reducing the Westerly Series.
 

Westerly Wood

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where are you finding the latest info on Guild? their website?

thanks
 

SFIV1967

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That's correct. The OM-150 and the F-150 were discontinued as also the webpage shows ("This model is no longer in production").
Both already were no longer in the 2018 catalog.
The cutaway models OM-150CE and F-150CE are to be continued, both are in the 2018 catalog.
Ralf
 

adorshki

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It looks like the OM-150 and F-150 models have been discontinued for 2018. Some retailers blow them out now reduced by about 30%. Interesting that Guild/Cordoba is reducing the Westerly Series.
There's a formal note to that effect on each model's page on Guild's website.
(ah, I took too long composing, I see Ralf beat me to it)
Not sure what you mean by "reducing the line" though, that implies there's an intent to reduce model offering when the drops could be due to other reasons.
Example: we now have a USA F55, perhaps they don't want to compete with themselves there?
Doesn't answer the issue for the OM150 though, which is basically an F30R, but that one always had a fairly narrow appeal.
The regular F30 'hog body/OM140 is still up as current.
Wonder if they're planning a US-built F30R? Which technically would be an OM50, while a 'hog bodied version would be an OM40.
It's the only model they haven't announced yet, unless you want to consider the possibility they could revive the M30 (all-hog F30) as an OM20.
I think Acornhouse would like that.
Or it could simply be limited capacity for production of multiple models and they have to produce the new introductions like the junior jumbo and the flamed mahogany bodied items.
Which, now that I think about it, means there's been a net increase of current production models.

I'm still hacked at 'em for burying the F40, though, and I just realized there's no slot allowing for that body size in the MIC line-up, either..
I will continue to bemoan this gaping hole in the line-up until they do something about it.
 
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tommym

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That's correct. The OM-150 and the F-150 were discontinued as also the webpage shows ("This model is no longer in production").
Both already were no longer in the 2018 catalog.
The cutaway models OM-150CE and F-150CE are to be continued, both are in the 2018 catalog.
Ralf

I think New Hartford was planning to go down that path with their Standard Series too.

Tommy
 

tommym

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Wonder if they make a US built OM50, if they will use the wider nut and bridge string spacing like the NH F30R Standard?

Tommy
 

Bernie

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Could it mean that they plan to build F30R and F50 again - or equivalent models in the U.S. ?
 

adorshki

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Could it mean that they plan to build F30R and F50 again - or equivalent models in the U.S. ?

I'd say the F50 (technically it would be the F55Maple) is a pretty sure bet since they've already announced the 12-string version of it.
And because they've also announced the F40 which is mis-named because it's actually a 'hog-bodied F55, 17" lower bout.
REAL F40's were ALWAYS 16" lower bouts.
They should have just called it an F48 which they even acknowledge it was based on, in the product description.
As for the F30, that's what the "OM" body is, with OM40 being 'hog body and OM50 being rosewood. ("20" is hog body/hog top, the "40" and "50" are sitka tops by definition)
It's the only body shape they haven't built in Oxnard yet.
But I only mentioned it in post #4 to fuel speculative frenzy.
(Gotta liven things up sometimes)
:glee:
And just for a refresher, the current Guild (acoustic) model number guide:
http://guildguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/guild-acoustic-naming-structure.pdf
 

adorshki

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It looks like the OM-150 and F-150 models have been discontinued for 2018. Some retailers blow them out now reduced by about 30%. Interesting that Guild/Cordoba is reducing the Westerly Series.
I remembered something else, it's easy to forget that these guitars are built under contract manufacturing, not "build to forecast".
In fact the early GAD s/n's were indexed to Fender purchase order numbers.
In other words a contract to produce x number of units is signed, with a tolerance for production fallout or even overage in case of higher-than-expected QC clearance.
And quite possibly the basic elements of the body sides/tops/backs/necks which are unique to that model are all pre-cut for the production run and used up.
We KNOW Fender used to supply the wood for the GAD series, for example (for QC reasons they said), so once it was used up it couldn't be replaced from "local" supplies.
(I don't know if CMG is using that same system but it would make sense because it would also simplify their CITES documentation.)
When the run's over it's time to decide whether or not to make another run.
In any case, it's not like they can continue to list a model as "current" and simply adjust the production run on the fly if sales slow down.
Other possible reasons for discontinuing might touch on potentially controversial areas:
I notice they're both rosewood bodied models.
Is it possible something's going on with the rosewood supply and these are the first to be dropped?
If we see a similar announcement for the D150 that'd arouse my suspicions.
And consider the current tense environment relating to tariffs. It didn't sprout overnight regardless of when it became a hot topic of conversation.
Could even be a combination of any or all these elements, and in my experience it usually is due to a combination of factors, not just one, if it's something like a planned overall reduction of a product line.
 

AcornHouse

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It's the only model they haven't announced yet, unless you want to consider the possibility they could revive the M30 (all-hog F30) as an OM20.
I think Acornhouse would like that.
Only if it’s a US model, with vintage specs. (No 1-3/4” long scale nonsense!)
 

davismanLV

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There's a formal note to that effect on each model's page on Guild's website.
(ah, I took too long composing, I see Ralf beat me to it)
Not sure what you mean by "reducing the line" though, that implies there's an intent to reduce model offering when the drops could be due to other reasons.
Example: we now have a USA F55, perhaps they don't want to compete with themselves there?
Doesn't answer the issue for the OM150 though, which is basically an F30R, but that one always had a fairly narrow appeal.
The regular F30 'hog body/OM140 is still up as current.
Wonder if they're planning a US-built F30R? Which technically would be an OM50, while a 'hog bodied version would be an OM40.
It's the only model they haven't announced yet, unless you want to consider the possibility they could revive the M30 (all-hog F30) as an OM20.
I think Acornhouse would like that.
Or it could simply be limited capacity for production of multiple models and they have to produce the new introductions like the junior jumbo and the flamed mahogany bodied items.
Which, now that I think about it, means there's been a net increase of current production models.

I'm still hacked at 'em for burying the F40, though, and I just realized there's no slot allowing for that body size in the MIC line-up, either..
I will continue to bemoan this gaping hole in the line-up until they do something about it.
Al, that's a pretty long post to say, "Yeah, I don't know exactly what they're doing." You know?

But then look at your post count..... LMFAO!!!
 

Rayk

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I’m wondering if one reason might be because of the cites restriction. BlueRidge dropped EIW in favor of Santos so now all models of the rosewood verity are made out of Santos.

I guess I could buy into the thought of not having the import line trying to compete with the US models but that tells me the build quality must be great on the Westerly series F150R and that doesn’t make sense .

But heck I just bought one to find out so hey Tx let’s met up and compare guitars . I hope these things aren’t duds lol can you say “Return” !!!!
Lol
 

AZLiberty

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A lot of importers are dropping Rosewood back/sides/fretboards due to the new CITES permitting process.

$100 per instrument adds up.

Alvarez is switching to Walnut, KLOS now uses blackwood bridges and fretboards. Taylor's Mexican production now uses ebony instead of rosewood for the headstock overlay. All of Martin's Mexican production is rosewood free.
 

tommym

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A lot of importers are dropping Rosewood back/sides/fretboards due to the new CITES permitting process.

$100 per instrument adds up.

Alvarez is switching to Walnut, KLOS now uses blackwood bridges and fretboards. Taylor's Mexican production now uses ebony instead of rosewood for the headstock overlay. All of Martin's Mexican production is rosewood free.

Eventually those woods will probably be in short supply too as demand grows for alternate hardwood sources around the world.

Tommy
 

AZLiberty

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Eventually those woods will probably be in short supply too as demand grows for alternate hardwood sources around the world.

Tommy

Ironically, East Indian Rosewood is in no danger. It's farm grown like christmas trees. The whole CITES nonsense regarding EIR is because import/customs agents can't distinguish EIR from actual endangered wood like Madagascar RW.
 

Bernie

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Good point : an excellent Indian guitar maker - the guy at "Bigfoot Guitars" - told me that too (that there are no problems with Indian Rosewood)...
So it may well be the explanation !!
 

Neal

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OK, is it just me, or have the rest of you lost all track of the "system" (and I use that term loosely) by which Córdoba is naming their new models.

Why in the world would they take, for instance, an F-50R, recognized as such the world over, and change the name so not even Guild oficonados know what the heck it is anymore?

Sorry for the veer, but I just don't get the logic.
 

chazmo

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That's an interesting point, Moritz. Could be.

And, Neal, FWIW, this isn't the first time. Gruhn did it back in the late '80s, early '90s, arguably to make more sense of the naming structure. It seems stupid to me since the F-50 is Guild's iconic jumbo, and the F-50R was clearly the rosewood version of that, but sure, why not renaming it the JF-65 and JF-55? Makes sense, right? :)

FYI: http://guildguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/guild-acoustic-naming-structure.pdf
 

adorshki

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The whole CITES nonsense regarding EIR is because import/customs agents can't distinguish EIR from actual endangered wood like Madagascar RW.

I throw the BS flag.
Respectfully submit your source for that is simply making up or repeating a myth.
Would you want to leave the ID of a given species up to uneducated customs agents?
It's not their job to be taxonomists, it's their job to make sure the appropriate paperwork accompanies incoming (and in many cases, outgoing)goods .
That's the whole point of the documentation process.
The express purpose was to get them listed en masse now, just like Tommym mentions in post #14, instead of piece-meal adding 'em as the consumption pressures inevitably shift to "un-listed" species as has historically been seen with the other varieties.
Also, this implies CITES is an organization that goes around looking for species to "target", when in fact, a native country for a given species has to submit candidates for listing.
CITES is TARGETED at VOLUME COMMERCIAL SHIPMENTS not individual owners.
That's why there's a provision for carrying less than 20lbs of a listed item like rosewood as personal property or a specific musical instrument exemption.
CITES-listing EIR actually encourages farming instead of poaching.
Whether it's currently endangered is not the point, they're trying to prevent it from becoming endangered.
Maybe what's confusing you folks is the fact that up until now they're been trying to play "catch up" with species that are already far down the road to extinction.
$100 per instrument adds up.
I call BS on that too.
Source? (Respectfully suggesting your source is in error or exaggerating at the very least)
Documentation for makers is done on a lot basis for the shipment to be imported and then exported again after manufacturing.
There's that "volume" thing again.
It's far more likely that demand for EIR is simply causing the price of the raw material itself to go up so that makers are now looking for alternatives.
The single biggest consumer on the planet (China) is still experiencing demand growth for their domestic furniture industry.
And it's a slow-growing wood so there actually hasn't been a lot of investment in farming beyond India and Java since those plantations were set up.
The source for this quote from Wiki is dated 2011, so even if there's been a drastic increase oin farmed acreage since then it still ain't ready to harvest:
"There exists an international high demand and price for the wood due to its excellent qualities of having a long straight bore, its strength, and its high density.[4] However, the tree is slow-growing; Javanese plantations were started in the late nineteenth century, but, due to its slow growth, plantations have not expanded beyond Java and India.[4] Many once popular uses for D. latifolia wood have now been replaced with Dalbergia sissoo wood and engineered rosewood's, for economic purposes in cottage industries.
 
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