Real tortoise?

docfishr

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Anyone know if Guild ever used real tortoise shell for pick guards? And if so I assume it stopped when the supply was listed as endangered but when did that actually affect the market?
 

AcornHouse

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Except for picks, real tortoise shell hasn’t been used in guitars for at least a century. Even Martin was using celluloid tortoise by the early 1900s.
 

txbumper57

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I don't think they ever did use real tortoise but I could be wrong. You might contact Hans to clarify for sure as we all know how hard it is to deal in an Absolute yes or no question when it comes to Guild Specs, LOL. Hans lists in his book on the F50 and other 1954 year model acoustics as having a "Tortoise Style" pickguard. To the best of my Knowledge they were made from Celluloid. Also the nitro was sprayed over the pickguard when the guitar was finished on many year model Guilds through Westerly Production which leads to the sometimes visible cracks in the top around the pickguards. The celluloid pickguards and top wood have different expansion and shrinkage rates which ultimately when being sealed under the Nitro together can cause the stress cracks on the top wood of the guitar. That little tidbit would also lead me to lean heavily towards them being Celluloid as well. Hope this helps!

TX

EDIT: I see Acorn replied when I was typing and juggling puppies, LOL! Good Info.
 

GAD

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I really doubt it, and if they did they'd probably be rotted away by now. Real tortoise shell is terrible material for a guitar as it outgasses and can destroy metal over time. Oddly enough, because of this fact, keeping them safe in the case is actually bad. Or was that cellulose? Don't remember. Here's some pics:

offgassing-1024x768.jpg


36209d1475181594-all-old-pickguards-doomed-dsc04602-jpg
 
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hansmoust

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I really doubt it, and if they did they'd probably be rotted away by now. Real tortoise shell is terrible material for a guitar as it outgasses and can destroy metal over time. Oddly enough, because of this fact, keeping them safe in the case is actually bad. Or was that cellulose? Don't remember. Here's some pics:

offgassing-1024x768.jpg


36209d1475181594-all-old-pickguards-doomed-dsc04602-jpg

No, it's the other way around! It's celluloid that can do bad things to your instrument! The use of real tortoise shell was only bad for the turtle!

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

steve488

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Never having a "real" tortoise shell for testing but I have spent the last 18 years in a test lab. That amount of corrosion looks like more than a pick guard's worth of shell could generate from outgassing. It looks a lot like what is seen at times in test with a sulpher dioxide salt fog corrosion test. In any case, if that is just the result of the outgassed chemical in the tortoise shell I would not want it as it would also be corrosive to the skin. GAD do you have more history on those guitars? (PM me). They look like they were exposed to acid rain and sealed up in a high humidity, high temperature environment for a long time. If the remaining wood did not look so good I would think they were in a flood. ..... maybe coastal storm surge on a warm salt laden air environment?
 

GAD

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No, it's the other way around! It's celluloid that can do bad things to your instrument! The use of real tortoise shell was only bad for the turtle!

LOL - nice.

Yeah, now that I'm not so tired it makes far more sense that celluloid would be the bad one, though "Offgassing Turtles" could be a fun band name...
 

GAD

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Never having a "real" tortoise shell for testing but I have spent the last 18 years in a test lab. That amount of corrosion looks like more than a pick guard's worth of shell could generate from outgassing. It looks a lot like what is seen at times in test with a sulpher dioxide salt fog corrosion test. In any case, if that is just the result of the outgassed chemical in the tortoise shell I would not want it as it would also be corrosive to the skin. GAD do you have more history on those guitars? (PM me). They look like they were exposed to acid rain and sealed up in a high humidity, high temperature environment for a long time. If the remaining wood did not look so good I would think they were in a flood. ..... maybe coastal storm surge on a warm salt laden air environment?

Pics are from the Internet. Some links:

http://www.gtstulsa.com/workbench/2013/11/8/ziba2fs3w5a9hcbpw3oneazptuzsd6

http://www.es-335.com/2012/09/28/plastic-explosives/

https://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guitar-amps-gizmos/55265-all-old-pickguards-doomed.html
 

guitarslinger

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I once made the mistake of using a dremel tool on a genuine tortoise guard upon which I was re-gluing a strip of binding. As I was grinding a rough edge I learned that genuine tortoise is highly flammable.
 

hansmoust

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I once made the mistake of using a dremel tool on a genuine tortoise guard upon which I was re-gluing a strip of binding. As I was grinding a rough edge I learned that genuine tortoise is highly flammable.

Don't think you were working on a genuine tortoise guard; if it was flammable it most likely was celluloid. Real tortoise shell is mostly keratine, just like your fingernails, and it may smell when getting hot while grinding it, but it will not burn easily.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 
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It will never cease to amaze me that people pay shops to restring their guitars for them.

I agree! I actually like changing my strings and making any necessary set up tweaks (...within my skill -set anyway!). It kinda bonds me with the guitar even more. I WISH I had the courage to attempt nut and saddle making, but I’d need about 20 blanks of each before I got a couple of them right! LOL.

And just the idea of “ genuine tortoise” boils my bunny!
 

davismanLV

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It will never cease to amaze me that people pay shops to restring their guitars for them.
Oh I know. A couple of years ago someone heard me talking guitars to Don probably at a bar and they said, "Oh, yeah, I gotta take mine into the shop." I asked what was wrong with it. "Needs new strings." :confusion:

I said, "Do it yourself." "Wouldn't have a clue how." "Bring it over to my house and I'll change them and show you how."

Of course it never happened.

It's shocking!!
 

Rayk

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Wow when I started playing I never knew what a shop was , it was a learning experience.

Ok start turning the knob annnnd dang my nott came undone maybe if I loop it over and under the bridge thingy it will hold better .
 

adorshki

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Oh I know. A couple of years ago someone heard me talking guitars to Don probably at a bar and they said, "Oh, yeah, I gotta take mine into the shop." I asked what was wrong with it. "Needs new strings." :confusion:

I said, "Do it yourself." "Wouldn't have a clue how." "Bring it over to my house and I'll change them and show you how."

Of course it never happened.

It's shocking!!

You shoulda said "please".
You're always so imperious, bossing people around.
I wouldn't let you change my srtings either, unless you promised to loop the ends into cute little curls instead of cutting 'em off all butch.
 
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