F212 Bridge Placement Question

aamapes

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My question for you experts: is there any history of bad bridge placements from the Guild factory, circa late 1960's?

Here is the story: I've got a sweet sounding 1968 F212 that came to me via Reverb. It's got lots of scars, a shaved bridge and a messy neck reset.

I got to looking at the bridge, and find that it's been placed to make the saddle perpendicular to the strings, and the bridge is crooked. The treble end of the saddle is actually a smidgen farther from the nut than the bass end. All of this seems to negate the angled saddle slot that's meant to give good intonation.

I would write it off to some idiot repair person, but the bridge plate has no extra holes. I can't swear that it's the original, but can't find obvious signs that it's a replacement.

Can anyone shed some light?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/tJISlYsCKeITs4Rn1

https://photos.app.goo.gl/nVzHiKjyoeRjW9uq1

https://photos.app.goo.gl/zmvaepB4UUQm89wv1
 
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Rayk

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Could be just they made it thinking it’s focus is on the 1-5 fret area with no need to go higher or the intonation was exceptable then . Here’s a vid that looks like has the same placement unless it’s the same guitar ��
 

aamapes

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Different guitar, but the bridge placement does look similar. The result on mine is good intonation for the high E - the low E is way sharp as you go up the neck (saddle should be farther from the nut). If the bridge was placed square to the strings, as would normally be done, the intonation would be better.

The guy in the video has a lot to learn about Guild's, eh?
 

beecee

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I am totally ignorant on the subject but that is a very pretty guitar!
 

hansmoust

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My question for you experts: is there any history of bad bridge placements from the Guild factory, circa late 1960's?

Here is the story: I've got a sweet sounding 1968 F212 that came to me via Reverb. It's got lots of scars, a shaved bridge and a messy neck reset.

I got to looking at the bridge, and find that it's been placed to make the saddle perpendicular to the strings, and the bridge is crooked. The treble end of the saddle is actually a smidgen farther from the nut than the bass end. All of this seems to negate the angled saddle slot that's meant to give good intonation.

I would write it off to some idiot repair person, but the bridge plate has no extra holes. I can't swear that it's the original, but can't find obvious signs that it's a replacement.

Can anyone shed some light?

The result on mine is good intonation for the high E - the low E is way sharp as you go up the neck (saddle should be farther from the nut). If the bridge was placed square to the strings, as would normally be done, the intonation would be better.

Hello aamapes,

The angle at which the saddle is placed for proper intonation on Guild guitars from the '60s and early '70s is not as severe as on later guitars; you could say that during that particular period they were somewhat 'under' compensated. Depending on your string gauge, your playing style and the playing action, it could work reasonably well.

Now the bridge on your guitar is a replacement; the original one would have had a 'through' saddle (see bridge at the top of the photo).

Old12StrBridges_1.jpg


That particular design was dropped for the 'drop in' saddle not too long after your guitar was completed (see bridge at the bottom of the photo).
A replacement bridge was not an uncommon repair on Guild 12-strings and in this case it looks like the replacement bridge with the 'drop in' saddle was not placed at the correct spot. There's always the possibility that the first bridge was placed incorrectly and that the replacement one was simply glued on with the old string holes as location markers; I can't tell you without being able to inspect the guitar.

Anyway, since the intonation is off now and your bridge has already been 'shaved', you might as well get a new bridge made with the saddle slot in the correct location. Here's a photo of a similar guitar from the same period with a reproduction bridge:

F212_bridge2.jpg


If the current bridge is not bothering you too much, as far as the alignment of the bridge itself is concerned, and the guitar is playable as it is, you could also fill the old saddle slot and rout a new slot in the proper location. That would save you the trouble of removing the current bridge and having an entirely new bridge made!

Good luck!

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 

Rayk

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Different guitar, but the bridge placement does look similar. The result on mine is good intonation for the high E - the low E is way sharp as you go up the neck (saddle should be farther from the nut). If the bridge was placed square to the strings, as would normally be done, the intonation would be better.

The guy in the video has a lot to learn about Guild's, eh?

Me to it seems I missed that lol
 

aamapes

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Hans - thanks so much for shedding light on the bridge situation. I will have to think a bit on what action I will take. At present, it plays pretty well and I don't do a lot of up the neck work on the low pitch strings. I love the look of the through saddles, so it would be nice to restore it to the original type.

The current bridge is 1/4" thick - am I right in thinking that it's been shaved? There appear to be some chip-out spots from a plane in the surface of the bridge.

Thanks again for your help - Alan
 

gjmalcyon

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If the current bridge is not bothering you too much, as far as the alignment of the bridge itself is concerned, and the guitar is playable as it is, you could also fill the old saddle slot and rout a new slot in the proper location. That would save you the trouble of removing the current bridge and having an entirely new bridge made!

My Tacoma F-47R (a beautiful-looking and sounding instrument) had this done by its previous owner, Mike Morris. He was not happy with the intonation, and had his luthier fill the old slot and cut a new saddle slot in the bridge. If I didn't tell you it was there, you would not notice it.
 
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