74 D25 potential purchase

Maloburro

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Hello all,

So with all your help, last year I found an 87 D25 flat back for a reasonable price. The poor baby looks beat up but plays great. So beat that there is even a crack near the traditional Gibson headstock location (that appears repaired).

Now I've got a line on a 74 D25 curved back. Lots of fret wear in the cowboy pocket but it would essentially cost me $270 after I trade my A&L Spruce.

I asked my friendly guitar expert friend who reminded me of bridge bulge, straight edge, pealing bridge, and to check neck relief. The seller claims action is 2/32 at 12th fret and that, despite the fret wear, it still plays well. He wants something acoustic / electric. The A&L is a great guitar but not as loud as any of the other dreads I've owned. A lot more trebly.

I sold a MIJ Fender F65 with some bridge bulge, to get the 87 Guild. It was LOUD but murder to play past the 6th fret.

Is there anything specific to look for in a mid 70s D25? Would most of the forum go through with this? It's a bit of a drive so I'm hoping it's worth it.

Thanks for your valued time and feedback.

Ryan
 

Br1ck

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Be sure to have a straightedge to check the neck angle, and look for a possibly shaved bridge. Other than that, the usual tapping for loose braces, checking for cracks, etc. Maybe you can get away with a partial refret if only cowboy chords were played.

I'd do this deal in a heartbeat if no major issues arise.
 

poser

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Also be aware of the saddle height. If it's really low it might be a red flag.
 

adorshki

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They made flat-back D-25's in '87?

Yeah I saw that too. I thought it was a year typo at first and was just going to let it pass but he confirms it actually had the date stamp on back of head stock which is period correct for '87, here, post #41:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/sh...-Guild-Acoustic-Sub-400&p=1770504#post1770504

But he never mentions the back configuration, so no reason to question it at the time.
So, Ryan, the question becomes:
Is that a typo about the flatback D25, or does it say D25 on label?
In which case I think it's just another of those mislabeled instruments so common from that period, like the D25 with a D35 label (or was it vice versa?) reported here a couple of times.
Or if no label, still think it's either a D35 or D40.
What's the s/n on that '25? You can check the '87 s/n's here:
http://guildguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/history_of_your_guild.pdf
 
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adorshki

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Now I've got a line on a 74 D25 curved back.
As it should be.
Lots of fret wear in the cowboy pocket but it would essentially cost me $270 after I trade my A&L Spruce.
What's your A&L worth? I have no idea.
But a '74 D25 in very good condition should really probably be in the $600.00 ball park



I asked my friendly guitar expert friend who reminded me of bridge bulge, straight edge, pealing bridge, and to check neck relief. The seller claims action is 2/32 at 12th fret and that, despite the fret wear, it still plays well.

"Bridge bulge" is not necessarily a bad thing.
A little bit can be "normal".
Only if there's a big dip between the bridge and the soundhole that affects the alignment test.
And don't forget the alignment test can be "fooled" by a shaved bridge, but if it's tilted forward it's already going to appear "low" in the test.
I'd be wary if the bridge was less than 3/8" tall at it highest point.
 

GardMan

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I'd be wary if the bridge was less than 3/8" tall at it highest point.

I don't think the bridges on any of my Guilds are 3/8"... most are around 5/16" (a shade over or under). The bridge on my '72 D-35 is barely over 1/4", and it has never been shaved (I'm the original owner). It's my understanding that Guild bridges were glued on after the neck, and that there were bins of bridges of various heights. The bridge guy (or gal) just picked bridges from the bin that matched the neck angle of each guitar they were working on.

I have also seen bridges that sloped down towards the treble end... being as much as 1/16" different from bass to treble. I presume this was to keep the amount of saddle showing above the bridge relatively even (for appearance sake).
 
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adorshki

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I don't think the bridges on any of my Guilds are 3/8"... most are around 5/16" (a shade over or under). The bridge on my '72 D-35 is barely over 1/4", and it has never been shaved (I'm the original owner).It's my understanding that Guild bridges were glued on after the neck, and that there were bins of bridges of various heights. The bridge guy (or gal) just picked bridges from the bin that matched the neck angle of each guitar they were working on. I don't think the bridges on any of my Guilds are 3/8"... most are around 5/16" (a shade over or under). The bridge on my '72 D-35 is barely over 1/4",
THANK YOU yes I screwed up trying to convert to roughly 1/2 of a 1/2"
You're right, 5/16" would be "ideal", on a bridge/saddle combination height of the "ideal" 1/2".
The bridge should be a little taller than the saddle, and of course that "ideal" 1/2" combined height is subject to the tolerances of the individual guitar and its original neckset angle.
It's my understanding that Guild bridges were glued on after the neck, and that there were bins of bridges of various heights. The bridge guy (or gal) just picked bridges from the bin that matched the neck angle of each guitar they were working on.
Right that's what I remember learning as well, although I later came to suspect that even if there were only 3 or 4 different "heights" they could probably sand one down at the bottom quickly enough, to get a really good alignment match if needed.
I also remember a report of 'em potentially being as much as a 1/16th(?) out of alignment, as built.
Great catch and hopefully will save Ryan some grief.

I have also seen bridges that sloped down towards the treble end... being as much as 1/16" different from bass to treble. I presume this was to keep the amount of saddle showing above the bridge relatively even (for appearance sake).
Now, all 3 of mine exhibit that, and I always thought it was so sufficient break angle could be maintained across the saddle, while allowing for the gradual lowering of action height from 6th to 1st string, and that the saddle profile needs to be matched to the fretboard radius at the same time.
Which is why I always specify bridge and saddle heights at their tallest points which is typically between D and G strings.
On all of mine, bridge and saddle are still a tiny bit lower under bass E than under G, because of fretboard radius, standardized at 12" by then.
Earlier could be flatter and then the bridge/saddle profile could be too.
In fact after writing all that, another question came to mind:
Could it be possible that treble side of bridge is normally thinner for vibration transmission reasons?
 
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Maloburro

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Sorry for the delay in response, this thread was slow at first so I hadn't checked back in a while. I'm still waiting to meet with the seller. So let's see if I can clear some things up.

Yes I was wrong, I don't know what I was thinking but my 87 D25 is indeed an arched/rounded back. Of course I didn't need to tell you that since you called me on the error. Another example of how great this forum is.

My D25 has had a rough life but still plays great. It is quite beaten up, including the crack on the back of the headstock close to where some of the Les Pauls break at (Gibson break). The price was right.

The A & L Spruce was $120 last summer and the seller agreed that I would add $150 cash to the deal, so total cost to me is about $270. Nothing wrong with the A & L but the price seems right for me to have 2 Guilds, provided it's not a total basket case. The seller wanted a lower end acoustic/ electric, so they seem happy with the potential deal.

Thanks for all the info on the bridges, that is really helpful. Sorry for the confusion and misinformation on my part. Thanks again to everyone who chimed in.

Ryan
 

adorshki

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Sorry for the delay in response, this thread was slow at first so I hadn't checked back in a while. I'm still waiting to meet with the seller.

Thanks for all the info on the bridges, that is really helpful. Sorry for the confusion and misinformation on my part. Thanks again to everyone who chimed in.

Ryan

Yer a good man, and I'm sure most of us realize not everybody comes by 40 hours a week like some of the more, uh, active members.... :glee:
 

Maloburro

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I ended up trading for it. It is used and abused. The bridge looks reglued and pinned. The fretwear isn’t all that bad. The finish is cracked all over and the action gets higher in the upper register. It smells like a peterbilt.

But it’s pretty cool. Way different sound than the 87 and it’s cool that it should be mahogany while the 87 is spruce. Makes a fun comparison. It needs a truss rod cover and the 87 needs a heel cap so I’ll start looking. The tuners were replaced with old Klusons but he has the originals and says they need to be rebuilt. I wish I could figure out how to post a pic.
 

adorshki

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I ended up trading for it. It is used and abused. The bridge looks reglued and pinned. The fretwear isn’t all that bad. The finish is cracked all over and the action gets higher in the upper register. It smells like a peterbilt.

But it’s pretty cool.

Quote of the year.
:biggrin-new:
On posting pics:
You need to find a photo hosting site to store the pics (NOT Photobucket, they'll extort you), then you can link to 'em using the "insert image" icon that appears in the menu at the top of a posting window. (the square one, 4th from right of the "ABC" spell check icon.)
Let us know when you're ready if you need a little more help.
 

Maloburro

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AF1QipN3hG0jEufm0bP0cO1vCUNJ4WapS1FJ-HQCNQLm


AF1QipNBzX2aTfX1kXgyRZ3VnglT5YWsPmpJC3sMK8CS


Thanks Al, I'll see if this works. I tried to link them through google photos.

cld1Ffdt0Bh0BKaC3


C6bMZWEsQh7cwoyJ2
 
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adorshki

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Thanks Al, I'll see if this works. I tried to link them through google photos.
Nope, they've gotta be jpg, jpeg, png, gif type files, (you'll see the file type as the extension at the end of the address.
In in this case just posting the raw links works ok if you copy and paste 'em into a Chrome search bar.
So that'd work for anybody using Chrome, but not Windows.
So when I use "Reply with Quote" I can see the addresses, here they are stripped of the linking brackets, otherwise you've got the right idea.

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipN3hG0jEufm0bP0cO1vCUNJ4WapS1FJ-HQCNQLm
https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipNBzX2aTfX1kXgyRZ3VnglT5YWsPmpJC3sMK8CS
https://photos.app.goo.gl/cld1Ffdt0Bh0BKaC3
https://photos.app.goo.gl/C6bMZWEsQh7cwoyJ2
 
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