FGD Need help!

Dondoh

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Congrats!
Forgive me for jumping right to business:

I got a sneaking suspicion it's actually gonna be from very late '80'sor early '90's, maybe even around '93-'94 when they went to "AJ55" s/n prefixes for the 6's and "AJ52" for the 12-ers.
Another thing that makes me think that is that labeling errors were much more common then, although most common in mid-to late '80's.
To be fair there was a lot of model-number juggling during that time and sure enough the JF55 was one of those most affected in the transition from the "F50R/F512" nomenclature.
Guild's official list is known to have "glitches", but it might confirm or correct your guess while waiting for Hans's verdict.:
http://guildguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/history_of_your_guild.pdf
Like Sandy said Hans is best source although it's safe to post s/n's here, BUT: I'll bet there's a date stamp visible on the heel block, maybe on one of the beveled edges, so it can be easy to miss unless you look through the soundhole at just the right angle.
Be aware that's just the date the "superstructure' was completed. Typically the guitar itself wasn't completely finished for an where from a couple of weeks to a couple of months after that.
And they dropped the date stamp in '99s or even later, just can't remember for sure at the moment.

The oxidation on the tuning pegs is another thing that makes me suspect older than '00 or '01.
The case does look like a real TKL construction (Guild's OEM maker, and that yellow stitching is very familiar), and the pull tab for the "glovebox" cover is stamped TKL on my Westerly cases, so that'll be a good clue.
The Guild logo was silk-screened on the case in gold ink. On a high-ender like that it would have been the roof-top logo over a G-shield somewhere on the treble side of the lower bout.
It may well have been eradicated from wear over the years, not sure if it's actually easily removed (I'm more concerned with preserving it on mine, LOL!).
Those 12-ers are pretty hard to fit correctly (headstock length) so even if it's not a factory original, if it's an actual TKL that's as close as you're likely to easily get these days.
Cracking around the heel?
Again like Sandy said, a reset's not necessarily a bad thing, but it could simply be a result of finish shrinkage over the years. I think we saw another example of that recently on another member's vintage 12-er.
Apologies I can't remember who it was or if that was actually confirmed, but it looks too "clean" to be the cut needed during a neck removal.
Could be an explanation for the separation at the fretboard binding, too.
The binding cracks could have happened during a re-fret. Can't see too much but the frets look exceptionally clean. On the other hand they also look like Guild's typical immaculate finishing along the edges.
Overall my initial gut reaction to a not-too critical look-over of the pics is that it appears to be in pretty darn good shape for what I suspect is actually a plus-20-year-old guitar.

Did somebody mention taking it in to a reputable shop for an assessment yet? (don't recall if you've mentioned already having a "favorite guy")
Assuming a good bill of health from them and a genuine love of the sound on your part, then price is probably justified..... (I know you didn't mention it, and that's entirely up to you)
:friendly_wink:

You are brilliant!
Even though the serial number is higher than any on the lists (which would make it a 2000 or 2001) I checked the bevel on the heel and it is stamped Nov. 25 1997.

As it happens this it the year I got married so the missus is liking this guitar more!

As for the case, it does have a rubbery pull tab on the accessory door, but it only says "Made in Canada". If there ever was a guild stencil on the top it was expertly removed...

Your comment on the frets reminded me that the first GC guy I talked to said it had been refretted. So again, you're playing at genius level.

I'd love to take it to someone but the person who I'd like to take it to is 3 hours away and very busy. Does anyone know a great acoustic tech near Winston-Salem, NC?
 

Dondoh

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I hope everything checks out 'cuz that's a major SCORE! Big-league congrats and HNGD, Dondoh!!!

Thanks Cougar. It sure sounds glorious. Still a few lingering questions, but it will be hard to return if I do!
 

Dondoh

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You can see breaks in the fretboard binding. But that doesn't mean a repair. The bottom (treble side) of my D65S has 3 cracks in the binding from moving from a more humid climate to an extremely dry one. And when that happens the lacquer (the yellowish part) chips off when that happens. It just means maybe it's been dry and the wood has shrunk and expanded and not at the same rate as the binding. I wouldn't worry about that unless you paid a premium price for the guitar. That type of neck chipping near the binding supports that story. Whether it had a reset or not, you're good to take the saddle down a bit. Remember, it might not seem like much, but the amount you want to lower the action at the 12th fret, you have to take TWICE that from the bottom of the saddle!! Keep that in mind. It's a general guideline.

It looks like a super nice guitar!! Congratulations, my friend!! :encouragement:

Thanks Tom!

Great advice on doubling the distance from 12th to saddle. THis has a lot of saddle, but it needs to come down a good amount too.
 

Dondoh

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I Agee with Tom . I’m leaning to no neck reset .
Ebony is susceptible to humidity changes possibly more so then the Rosewood and Sitka top and Hog neck.
It’s most likely what’s caused the chipping and cracking of the binding .
The binding is bright white under the NCL so when it chips or flakes that whiteness is revealed.
Unfortunately it reveals more the bindings height along with any gap filler along the seam between fingerboard and neck .
Those flakes also take some of the stained NCL on the neck off which helps even up the seem between the two .
Now don’t ask me what came first the chicken or the egg meaning how the two were finished off in what order .
You can refer to my D55 binding repair to compare .

Just another take on the reset , if I had it done and the fingerboard had the chipping issue then , it would have optimal to repair that while it was off the guitar.

One thing you can do is run your finger along all the binding on the guitar to see if you can feel the joint lines that will give more idea of dryness .

Looks like a sweet guitar enjoy ;)

I'm thinking this had a refret and that may have had something to do with it as well.
 

Dondoh

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There is no policy for or against posting serial numbers.

In Ye Olden Days, when brontosaurus hide was used instead of Tolex, there were stories about stolen goods that were recovered and returned to someone other than the rightful owner. The scheme depended upon a non-owner filing a police report of stolen goods that included a serial number. If you believe that was possible or if you are just conservative enough to make sure it can never happen, you are paranoid about sharing serial numbers. Those were also the days when police departments encouraged people to engrave social security numbers on high value goods and even loaned engraving tools.



HA! The amount of time scammers spend on scams!

I'll keep the serial off the public forum but if anyone would like to know what it is I'd be happy to pm it to you.
Same goes for the price I paid. I don't want to be inappropriate here, but if anyone is interested, pm me and I'll be happy to tell you what it set me back.
 

Dondoh

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I thing if the humidity was really low for a while that you could feel the binding both protruding out from the sides along with separation from the seems .

The F40 I had returned was that way and it was over the intire guitar . Ironically there was no NCL flaking or chipping .

I still have a lot to learn about with NCL guitars 😁

This makes a great deal of sense as this came from Colorado's dry climate.

The guitar is now living in the case with an oasis in the soundhole and a dampit in the case. I'm going to leave it there for a week or so to see what develops.
It'd be better if I left it closed all the time, but that is hard to do.... But I keep telling myself that I'll have years of playing it whenever I want, so I should just leave it be. Then I pull it out again for a few minutes.
 

Dondoh

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I would measure the bridge height , as well. I’m not talking about the saddle, but the actual bridge, and then compare it with someone who owns one in pristine condition. An old pre-neck reset fix was to shave the bridge down and install a new saddle.[/QUOTE

Retro, Thanks for the insight on the bridge height. I am learning so much here.
After reading your post and adorshki's one that followed yours, I measured as best as I could. Somewhere in this house is a little metal guitar measuring square that would yield a really precise measurement, but I can't seem to find it anywhere. Just when you need something.... But I did mark a notecard with a pen and it yielded these less-than-precise measurements:
String height above soundboard near soundhole 1/2 to 9/16 inches
Bridge height above soundboard 5/16 to 11/32 inches
Action at the 12th on low e (measured fret to top of string) 1/8 inch. This was pretty hard to measure correctly with my crude tools. And maybe I should measure from the bottom of the string.
 
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Dondoh

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A Guild twelve? You're following in the giant footsteps of the immortal Long John Baldry. Do it justice!

Recommendation: If it's fun to play and nothing bothers you when you play it, then it's fine as-is, no matter what the pros say. Luthiers are a notoriously fussy breed.

Thanks Charlie for the great advice and your encouragement to greatness!
 

adorshki

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You are brilliant!
Even though the serial number is higher than any on the lists (which would make it a 2000 or 2001) I checked the bevel on the heel and it is stamped Nov. 25 1997.
Actually per Hans that list only goes to '97 even though it says '99.
As for the case, it does have a rubbery pull tab on the accessory door, but it only says "Made in Canada".
If there ever was a guild stencil on the top it was expertly removed...
TKL's in Canada. Most likely a generic from them, then.
Next best thing to an original.
Your comment on the frets reminded me that the first GC guy I talked to said it had been refretted. So again, you're playing at genius level.
Nahhh, just seen a ton of pics now over the years, but thanks.
:friendly_wink:
Retro, Thanks for the insight on the bridge height. I am learning so much here.
After reading your post and adorshki's one that followed yours, I measured as best as I could. Somewhere in this house is a little metal guitar measuring square that would yield a really precise measurement, but I can't seem to find it anywhere. Just when you need something.... But I did mark a notecard with a pen and it yielded these less-than-precise measurements:
To tell you the truth I just use a metal ruler with graduations down to 64ths and place it right next to the bridge and measure at the tallest point of it's "arc", and then do the same for the saddle at its highest point, and add 'em together. Thus "combined height".

String height above soundboard near soundhole 1/2 to 9/16 inches
String height is same as actual combined bridge and saddle height, it's measured at the point where they cross over the bridge.
Bridge height above soundboard 5/16 to 11/32 inches
That's excellent, basically a shade over 1/4", the desirable slightly more than "half of the half inch".
NO worries about a shaved bridge here.
And there's a contingent here (myself included) who feel that late Westerly, ie, from' 96-'01 when Fender owned 'em, was a golden age of construction quality.
My D25's neck is still dead-on after 21 years, 1200 some-odd hours of playing, and always strung with factory-spec lights.
Which, for a '97 F512 would have been D'Addario EJ38 in Guild packaging (uncoated PB .010-.047)
I'm notorious 'round here for recommending what Guild used.
The only other thing I'd suggest is a set of silk and steels (EJ35) which in fact they used in '87 on the blinged-down counterpart to the 512, the JF30-12.{EDIT: That should be counterpart to the F412, the maple bodied version of the 512}
If for some reason you like coateds D'A offers 'em that way (on the EJ 38, at least), too.
Action at the 12th on low e (measured fret to top of string) 1/8 inch. This was pretty hard to measure correctly with my crude tools. And maybe I should measure from the bottom of the string.
Just about perfect. Yes measure from top of 12th fret to bottom of string.
Guild's action specs at the time were 5-6/64 (3/32 max) on bass E and 4-5/64ths on treble, and no differentiation was made for 12's in 1997 Guild Gallery #1
Sounds like it was set up very well if not perfectly after the fret job, and now the only caution I have is that you need to be very careful about adjusting truss rods (relief, or neck straightness) on those, because it has 2 truss rods, a Guild 12-string exclusive hallmark up until mid-Tacoma production.
They need to be adjusted in relation to each other, they're intended to deal with the large difference in tension from the bass side to the treble side and should not be over-tightened.
In fact given the rest of your report, I'd bet they don't need to be messed with at all.
Leave it to the guy you decide on to give it a final once-over to check for things like a loose or cracked brace, but at the moment I'm feeling very very good about that piece.
"Ya done good"
I'm happy for ya!
PS: One of the beauties of NCL is that it can be easily repaired.
A decent luthier can easily seal over those areas of separation and buff' em to virtual invisibility.
It's literally not much more than painting a thin line of the stuff over the cracks, maybe a couple-3 times to get a good thickness back up to original surface level, and buffing back to gloss.
 
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Dondoh

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Thanks so much adorshki for taking so much time to look at this. Drinks are on me if we ever meet! I can't tell you how comforting your shared expertise is to me. This guitar is about as far away from the guitar I play as I could imagine - that's one reason I wanted it - so I'm a little at sea with it. It is great to have an experienced eye look it over. I'm more excited now about it than ever. I will get both the strings you suggested and try them out. In fact, I'll probably spend the next year or so trying different strings until I find what I like most, then put it in for a complete set-up/touch up.
I have some work needed on my main guitar, so I will have him look over the 12 when I take the other in too.
Again, thanks a million to you and to all the fine minds here for all the help.
 

adorshki

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Thanks so much adorshki for taking so much time to look at this...Again, thanks a million to you and to all the fine minds here for all the help
"De nada".
What goes around comes around.
:friendly_wink:
And here's a bump for that last question because I think there has been somebody mentioned:

I'd love to take it to someone but the person who I'd like to take it to is 3 hours away and very busy. Does anyone know a great acoustic tech near Winston-Salem, NC?
 

Rayk

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Thanks so much adorshki for taking so much time to look at this. Drinks are on me if we ever meet! I can't tell you how comforting your shared expertise is to me. This guitar is about as far away from the guitar I play as I could imagine - that's one reason I wanted it - so I'm a little at sea with it. It is great to have an experienced eye look it over. I'm more excited now about it than ever. I will get both the strings you suggested and try them out. In fact, I'll probably spend the next year or so trying different strings until I find what I like most, then put it in for a complete set-up/touch up.
I have some work needed on my main guitar, so I will have him look over the 12 when I take the other in too.
Again, thanks a million to you and to all the fine minds here for all the help.

Omg ! I’m getting drunk tonight ! Al how long will it take for your head to fit through the door again ? Lmao Wow !

Dondoh , what is it you want looked at on your guitar ? Also what guitar is it , some how I missed something lol :)
 

adorshki

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Omg ! I’m getting drunk tonight ! Al how long will it take for your head to fit through the door again ? Lmao Wow !

104531669-soupnazi-1.530x298.jpg

MY head? Big?
" NO MORE F40's FOR YOU!!!"
 
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Rayk

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104531669-soupnazi-1.530x298.jpg

MY head? Big?
" NO MORE F40's FOR YOU!!!"

Bwahahaha ;) there’s another model I can mention but out of respect I won’t but you can pm me and I’ll tell ya :p
 

Dondoh

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Omg ! I’m getting drunk tonight ! Al how long will it take for your head to fit through the door again ? Lmao Wow !

Dondoh , what is it you want looked at on your guitar ? Also what guitar is it , some how I missed something lol :)

Sorry about the lack of clarity. I have a Martin 0-16ny that has developed the slightest separation along the seam of the back and sides. Not a major issue, but I've been meaning to take it in and have a really great luthier up near Asheville NC give it the complete once over while fixing the separation. He's a busy guy and I seldom get up that way.
But I am really excited about this JF55-12. I'd love him to have a look at it too.
 

Rayk

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Sorry about the lack of clarity. I have a Martin 0-16ny that has developed the slightest separation along the seam of the back and sides. Not a major issue, but I've been meaning to take it in and have a really great luthier up near Asheville NC give it the complete once over while fixing the separation. He's a busy guy and I seldom get up that way.
But I am really excited about this JF55-12. I'd love him to have a look at it too.

I got two here in Charlotte the used to work together and I do recall them restoring prewar Martins . They have separate businesses and both have a major work load .

If interested you can give NC Guitar works a call never know if an opening comes along . :)
 
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