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Gamehenge757

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Old guild day.....
So I just picked up a (extremely) well used guild f-47, serial ak613, apparently made in Hoboken via the sticker... She needs some work, there’s a few cracks in the back, a few missing braces, the bridge is lifted and probably needs to be replaced, and the top has split at the seam. But she still plays, amazingly enough. The neck needs a refret, but it’s otherwise straight and aside from some small dings and a need for a new nut, all of the inlays are great though.

So opinions? Should I pursue getting this instrument back into a playable shape? Or should she just be a wall hanger with some major mojo?
 

ClaytonS15

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Sounds like a very cool guitar but in rough condition. Sounds like it will need some real restoration by a pro based on your description. So, I guess it comes down to your gut instinct/connection to it and how much it costs. The missing braces detail really concerns me though. What exactly is wrong?
 

Gamehenge757

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2 of the braces on the back of the guitar, the ones across the short width, are just gone while the other two remain. And there’s been some crack repairs on the back that need repairs again. The sides are in good condition, as is the soundboard, with the exception of the split at the seam of the top right in the middle, the bracing on the soundboard is all present, but apparently needs a reglue and some clamping. Going to talk to my luthier tomorrow and see what it will take to get it back into a players state at the very least.
 

adorshki

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Gamehenge that's the same instrument we discussed here:
http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/showthread.php?196530-Hoboken-F-47-D-C-CL-800

Be aware that it's highly likely to have actually been made in Westerly, they just continued to use Hoboken labels for their first couple of years of production.
That may matter to some but sounds like not to you.

It's likely to wind up being a very sweet sounding piece but suspect it'll cost more to repair than it'll be worth in the end.
So it's up to you on whether or not to proceed.
 

Gamehenge757

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Yup that’s the one. Gonna take a bit of work, but I think it might be made playable again
 

adorshki

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Yup that’s the one. Gonna take a bit of work, but I think it might be made playable again

You're one of us now.
There's no going back.
:glee:

Joking aside if the neck's ok and the soundboard just needs a re-glue, there's no reason it shouldn't sound at least as good if not better than it ever did yet.
All the other stuff just restores structural integrity, and you're only looking to make a player out of it.
As they say down under "Good on ya, mate!!
 

Gamehenge757

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I figured if they were made in westerly they’d have the westerly serial numbering on the Hoboken sticker, but you think they kept up with the same serial numbering until they ran out of labels?
 

wileypickett

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Congrats! My vote is for getting it back in playable shape. If money is an issue, have the work done in baby steps. No rush, right?
 

adorshki

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I figured if they were made in westerly they’d have the westerly serial numbering on the Hoboken sticker, but you think they kept up with the same serial numbering until they ran out of labels?
No, we think they just kept using the labels 'til they were gone because of Al Dronge's well-known reluctance to throw anything away.
Seriously.
And they were still using those old labels when the "new" s/n's kicked in, in '70, too:
http://guildguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/history_of_your_guild.pdf
In the Guild Guitar Book Hans Moust mentioned that the move to Westerly was complete "by 1969", and that they actually started building M20's there in '67.
The only semantic uncertainty here, to me, is whether that meant "by the beginning of '69" or the end, and I can't recall ever seeing a clarification of it.
Hans has confirmed Hoboken labeled guitars as being built in Westerly on a case by case basis, as well as the fact that they did use Hoboken labels in Westerly even into 1970 (can't recall if it was even longer, but there was also at least one interim "Made in USA" label before "Westerly" ever appeared on a label).
So, even though we know the s/n charts do have flaws and errors, the last number recorded for F47's in '69 was AK583.
So I'm giving it 99% probability that even if you guitar's s/n simply didn't "make the records" there's still a very low probability of being made in Hoboken even if it was made in '69.
Also understand that the part of the chart showing 1970 s/n's doesn't mean they went to that system on Jan 1st 1970, it just means they started using that system at some point in '70.
So "AK613" doesn't conflict with being built in '70 and I suspect the charts are technically accurate in this case, but your s/n falls into one of those periods where they did change during a calendar year and so it becomes "hidden".

Hans will know where it was built for sure, he has records.
 
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twocorgis

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I figured if they were made in westerly they’d have the westerly serial numbering on the Hoboken sticker, but you think they kept up with the same serial numbering until they ran out of labels?

Hopefully Hans will be along at some point to clear that up. If it's not one of the real heavy Westerly builds, I myself would try to rehabilitate this one!
 

adorshki

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Hopefully Hans will be along at some point to clear that up.
Contact him here if you're starting to die of curiosity:
http://www.guitarchives.nl/guitarsgalore/
:friendly_wink:
If it's not one of the real heavy Westerly builds, I myself would try to rehabilitate this one!

Westerly continued Hoboken "light" build traditions until mid-'70's** according to my informal memory tracking of owner feedback.
They went back and forth a couple of times across the decades.
Think the Gruhn /Walker years brought back a "light build" philosophy.

**(starting '73, '74?, your '73 D50 comes to mind as one of the early "heavy builds")
 

gjmalcyon

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Way to go! When I posted that CL listing, I was wondering who was going to have enough cojones to go get it.

And you did!

Man, keep us posted about the rehabilitation of that thing.
 

twocorgis

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Westerly continued Hoboken "light" build traditions until mid-'70's** according to my informal memory tracking of owner feedback.
They went back and forth a couple of times across the decades.
Think the Gruhn /Walker years brought back a "light build" philosophy.

**(starting '73, '74?, your '73 D50 comes to mind as one of the early "heavy builds")

Yes indeed. My '73 is the heaviest acoustic guitar I've ever held. It manages to sound good anyway, but I dan only imagine how good that would be if it were lighter.
 

Bonneville88

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Congrats again Henge!

So was the seller as scary as the room in the photo, or not so bad after all?

You obviously survived the encounter, but you didn't say if the seller did, LOL!
 

Gamehenge757

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Lol we both survived the encounter, I didn’t get to see the scary room though, we met at the halfway point between bfe and the 757, actually a pretty nice young dude, maybe a little desperate for cash which was kind of a bummer
 

mavuser

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congrats on the guitar!

I am no Hans, but can tell u with that serial number it is very likely a 1970 Guild F-47 "Hoboken design/spec" built in Westerly.

If the neck and headstock are clean/not broken/repaired, it's worth fixing at a reasonable cost. that does not mean u will ever get all of your money back, but it's still worth fixing
 

Gamehenge757

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So I dropped it off today with my guitar guy, and the estimate wasn’t as bad as I was expecting, not going for a full restoration just yet, but I’m going to get it structurally sound, missing braces replaced, and have a new bridge installed as the original has been sanded way to far down. After that I’ll decide on fretwork, refinishing and possibly a neck reset. Although the patina the wood has garnered over the years has a certain charm, some je ne sais quois, and a bit of mojo.
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hansmoust

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... not going for a full restoration just yet, but I’m going to get it structurally sound, missing braces replaced, and have a new bridge installed as the original has been sanded way to far down. After that I’ll decide on fretwork, refinishing and possibly a neck reset.

Hello Gamehenge757,

Ask your repairman to measure the thickness of the bridge (without the saddle) in between the 3rd and 4th strings. From what I can see the bridge has not been sanded down; you, or your repairman, may not be familiar with the bridges from this particular period.

Sincerely,

Hans Moust
www.guitarsgalore.nl
 
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