1965 CE100D - restore or go full Gibson emulation?

stellerscrub

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First post here; sorry, I haven't figured out how to add photos yet.

For years, my main electric was a blonde CE100d a friend calls my "Guildson." Sometime between its manufacture in Hoboken in 1965 and when I bought it in 1978 from Guitars Unlimited in Menlo Park, someone decided to make it even more like the Gibson ES175 by swapping out the original Guild pickups for Gibson “patent #” humbuckers. A new pickguard was made to accommodate the larger Gibson pickups. The tuning machines were also replaced with Schallers. It's got a great neck and a wide range of tones, from jazz to blues and rock to rockabilly twang (thought I don't indulge in the last very often).

Having acquired other guitars recently, I don't play this one much any more, and I think it ought to be in the hands of a serious jazz student or working musician. But the volume pots have gotten noisy, and it may need some electronics work, possibly a whole new wiring harness. I am considering restoring it to more or less original specs, with current Guild humbuckers and the nearest I can find to the original pickguard. (The Gibson pickups have some resale value, which could help finance the project.) On the other hand, I could go full Gibson and rewire to ES175 specs, with options of "modern" or "50s" wiring.

Anyone have any advice on this project? Are there likely to be technical/parts hurdles in going back to the original pickup mounts, etc? Thanks in advance.
 

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Guild humbuckers are too small to fit Gibson routing and the new minibuckers are... Not balanced.
 
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AcornHouse

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As Steve said, it’ll be tricky to “unrout” the openings, so I’d leave the pups as it. You may not need to replace any of the wiring. I’d start with just cleaning the pots with some Deoxit. That could take care of the noisiness right there.
 

kakerlak

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I might be tempted, since it's already routed larger than factory, to track down and mount a set of Guild HB-1s (factory humbuckers used from 1970-1994ish) and a pickguard from a later CE-100D with those pickups. That'd take it back to being fully 'Guild' and you come across '60s Guilds that got factory retrofitted w/ the bigger pickups from time to time, anyway.
 

mad dog

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That sounds like a cool guitar as is. I love those patent # humbuckers, so would leave them, replace the pots and rewire as needed.
 

stellerscrub

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contact cleaner helped

...You may not need to replace any of the wiring. I’d start with just cleaning the pots with some Deoxit. That could take care of the noisiness right there.[/QUOTE said:
Sprayed in some contact cleaner (not Deoxit, but one sold by my local electronics store as similar) and that helped with the pot noise. Thanks for the tip.
 

stellerscrub

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Okay, nearly two years later and I haven't acted, but getting ready to rewire with Toneman parts (500k pots, haven't decided between orange drop and PIO caps). OTOH, Guild sells its own prewired harness in the Newark St. collection, also with 500k pots; anyone know about the quality of these?
I'm now leaning toward new Guild pickups, save the Gibsons for another project or sell them. It would take full size pickups, given the rerouting. What's the difference between HB-1 and HB-2? Or any recommendations for third party humbuckers?
Thanks.
 

SFIV1967

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Guild sells its own prewired harness in the Newark St. collection, also with 500k pots; anyone know about the quality of these?
Generic Asian no-name parts, metric (Asian) threads. Don't match with American parts. Get quality parts like a real Switchcraft switch and so on.

What's the difference between HB-1 and HB-2? Or any recommendations for third party humbuckers?
The reissued HB-1 has the same size as the traditional vintage full size Guld humbucker. They are slightly larger than a Gibson humbucker. The HB-2 was originally the large bass humbucker pickup but the current owners of Guild (CMG) didn't pay attention to history and created a standard size humbucker (Gibson size) and called it HB-2. The HB-2 is different in construction inside from the HB-1. Advantage is that you can put any standard size humbucker in HB-2 routed guitars. The HB-2 also the coil split feature.
Some info about the various HB-1 versions is here: https://www.gad.net/Blog/2011/11/25/guild-full-sized-hb1-and-sd1-pickup-variations/
Both re-issue ("Newark St.") HB-1 and HB-2 use Alnico II magnets and are produced by BHK (Booheung Precision Machinery Co., Ltd. ) in Korea.
GAD opened the new HB-2 already see here: https://letstalkguild.com/ltg/index.php?threads/i-got-a-set-of-hb2s.202574/post-1880097

Ralf
 
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stellerscrub

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Thanks, Ralf. I went ahead and rewired the CE-100D with the Toneman parts including PIO caps, and re-installed the Gibson pickups. It sounds good, though somewhat surprisingly, is still less loud than my other guitars at the same amp settings. So maybe that's inherent in the pickups? Impedance readings are 7.49k neck, 7.56k bridge.

In any case, I'm still thinking about pulling out the Gibsons for another use (or selling them to finance various projects), and going back to Guild pickups. I don't see myself seeking out/waiting for original HB-1s on the used market, so am looking at the reissue HB-1 set. If I understand correctly, they are the same size as the originals (which I now realize means larger, not smaller, than Gibson), and they come with mounting rings, so they should be a drop-in without any further modification except finding an appropriate pickguard.

Of course I wouldn't try to pass the guitar off as original if I put it on the market (don't want to be one of those "unscrupulous people" GAD refers to); but what's the community consensus on the sound of the new HB-1s?
 
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kakerlak

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Depending on how early those patent # Gibson pickups are, you could probably sell them off and more than fund a vintage set of HB-1s. OTOH, depending on how old they are, they might be pretty good pickups, lol.
 

Shakeylee

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So, it’s two years later.
perhaps posting a picture is easier now?

sounds like a fantastic guitar.
 

stellerscrub

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Fair enough. Here it is, still working on fitting a pickguard.
CE100d-1.jpg
CE100d-3.jpg
 

gilded

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I don't know what the neck pickup is exactly, but the bridge pickup embossed with the Gibson name is around '70-'72. Those are good pickups. If the neck pickup-has a small label it might have been made before the bridge pickup. If the bottom of the neck pickup has a 'stamped' patent number, it's probably from later in the '70s. Could still be a great pickup, though.

I wouldn't worry about how loud the pickups both sound at, say, 7, I'd just open them both all the way up and see how that compares with your memory of how loud or quiet they used to sound.

Good luck.
 

stellerscrub

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Other than fitting an existing pickguard, what would be the reason for original-size rings? Mine cover the original holes (but just barely), though new holes had to be drilled for the Gibson mounting rings.
 

GAD

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If you're asking if there's rings that allow HB1s to work in a standard pickup route, that's not possible as the HB1s won't fit in a standard route's hole. If the routes are large enough for the HB1s to fit but the rings aren't large enough, then I'd fill and redrill the pickup mounting holes since the guitar is already altered.

Newark St. HB2s will fit in standard rings without modification. They're not really vintage HB1 sound-quality-wise, but they sound good, have 4-wire coil-split capability, and look like Guild pickups should. Note that they are Nickel instead of chrome so they won't accurately match the harp tailpiece, but I've seen people not notice the difference like Norm's Rare Guitars who didn't notice the replaced bridge pickup or the fact that this guitar was a refin:

Screen Shot 2020-06-28 at 6.32.51 PM.png


 

Shakeylee

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i was wondering if the mounting holes to HB1 rings, would accommodate a gibson or standard ring.
 
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