Mexican Built Guilds

adorshki

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I think, at the time, the Arcos was positioned as a step up from the contemporary MIC Guilds.
I think the real issue was that they weren't offering arched-back MIC models at that time.
That's why the series was named "ARCOS".
I actually recall a couple of negative reviews about quality but those could have been flukes, and were from new-to-Guild buyers as well.
Not sure what they were using as a yardstick for comparison.
@Doug:
I'm sure the reason for the scarcity of info about these is that they were only around for something like 2 years before Fender sold Guild and they were a pretty narrow niche in the line anyway.
I wonder if it was more than coincidence that Cordoba started offering arched-back MIC models right after they bought Guild, as in, maybe they bought the Mexican steam press?
(the old Westerly arch-back press stayed with 'em throughout the '00's an '10's and made its way to Oxnard)

I'm not sure that would be true compared to today's MIC Guilds. There are a lot of Guilds with 1 11/16" nut width so you will have to check before you but your next Guild.
MORE for Doug's info:
1-3/4 inch nuts started being offered as a standard spec on certain models in Tacoma era, the Contemporary series IIRC, otherwise it was the F30.
But up until then the 1-11/16 was by far the most common on acoustic flattops, with some exceptions prior to that during Hoboken and Westerly.
 

PittPastor

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@ PittPastor: A 1998 Guild AO-3CE is not possible as the model was only introduced in 2012.

For the life of me, I can't remember now why I thought this was a 1998. I thought the seller (on Reverb) listed it as such, but I went back and checked the ad, and he doesn't give a year at all.

The serial number is covered -- as this was a "Manufacturer Refurbished" item. This is the sticker, but I don't know how to figure out the year on it from this:

R5OFzEW.png


For the record, this one is a 1 3/4" nut. I never measured it, but that's what it was sold as, and that's what my fingers say it is.
 

marius

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The serial number is covered -- as this was a "Manufacturer Refurbished" item. This is the sticker, but I don't know how to figure out the year on it from this:

I don't think you'll find any information yourself from that serial number, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that you can contact MIRC with the serial number and they'll have records of what work they did on the guitar. They might also be able to give you the original serial number or information about the manufacture date. Although it also seems like I read that there was a shelf life on the information because they only kept those details on record for a couple of years. That is all just conjecture though...I kinda think I remember reading that some time somewhere...helpful right?!

For the record, this one is a 1 3/4" nut. I never measured it, but that's what it was sold as, and that's what my fingers say it is.

Yeah, mine measured at 1 3/4 and this press release lists it at 1 3/4.
 
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adorshki

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I don't think you'll find any information yourself from that serial number, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that you can contact MIRC with the serial number and they'll have records of what work they did on the guitar.
Yes I distinctly remember one member reporting that a few years back, it stuck because I was impressed that MIRC gave an answer to the end buyer, to me that was excellent service since they didn't actually sell to the public at the time, only dealers. (I think that's still the case)

They might also be able to give you the original serial number or information about the manufacture date. Although it also seems like I read that there was a shelf life on the information because they only kept those details on record for a couple of years.
That needed to percolate for a couple of minutes before it rang a vague bell.. and I think it might have been related to the fact that their dealers did in fact get a time-limited warranty of sorts on 'em, although it wasn't transferable to the end owner. Dealers could sell their own warranty package for an instrument if they wanted to, though.
Their website's changed a bit since the last time I looked so a lot of that info's probably given in videos now:
https://mircweb.com/
That is all just conjecture though...I kinda think I remember reading that some time somewhere...helpful right?!
It is if it generates corroboration...
:friendly_wink:

Conjecture on my part: I'd be kind of surprised if MIRC would let that info out about actual original s/n and build date (if they even still had it), since part of their arrangement (with Fender at least) was to ensure that no warranty claims could be filed on instruments that were acquired at liquidation prices for refurbishing.
They did this by obscuring the original s/n, and I believe we've seen an example of an attempt to remove the tape taking off the label paper underneath, as well.
Counterpoint is that there's only a relatively small window of time for Arcos' to have been built anyway.
As I understand it MIRC also "vetted" instruments that were simply being liquidated as opposed to actually needing repair, Arcos' would have been likely candidates for being in that category, but those still required the obliteration of the s/n to protect Fender.
Plus their own stickers allow MIRC to track their own sales and dealer claims.
 

richardp69

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For whatever it may be worth. My AF 50 RE was delivered a bit ago. Build quality looks excellent. It sounded pretty good as well but it came with light strings (I'll never really understand that on a Jumbo bodied guitar). It's up with my Luthier for a set up now. I think it's going to be a nice piece and one I'll be content to own. This is the type guitar I'll haul over to a friends house or a bar gig or any other number of reasons.

I will say, I worked for 34 years at one of the Big 3 Auto companies. Some of our highest quality product came out of Mexico. I see no quality issues with this Mexican built Guild.
 

bobouz

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Glad it worked out, Richard. When the Arcos series was being closed out, I was tempted by the jumbo, but never did pull the trigger.

Nice to finally have a review, as at the time, I don't think I could come up with a single one.
 

dougdnh

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Like pittpastor, my AO-5Ce also has the tape serial number. So what does this imply? A reconditioned guitar? Also what is MIRC?
I've had my AO-5Ce for several days now, I've tweaked the truss rod a little to bring the action down a hair. Love the way this guitar feels - almost like an electric, great for the bluesy jazzy stuff I like to play. I'm actually considering selling the Martin dread I bought a few months ago. Even though it sounds great, it's not my style. Did Guild ever make an orchestra sized cutaway with 1 3/4 nut made in USA?
 

chazmo

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Doug, https://mircweb.com/

What it implies is that the guitar was never sold as "new" by an authorized Guild dealer. I.e., no factory warrantee, no support.

A guitar from MIRC was received from the factory and then may have been assembled from parts, repaired, or just sold as-is. In New Hartford, MIRC was used to sell some blems that were not worth (Guild) repairing; anything truly problematical was bandsawed. I cannot vouch for the other factories, though. We know, for example, that a bunch of bad guitars were sold through MIRC at the closing of Tacoma -- a real stain on the brand, if you ask me. As for Ensenada, I have no idea what would've triggered a sale through MIRC.
 

adorshki

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Doug, https://mircweb.com/

What it implies is that the guitar was never sold as "new" by an authorized Guild dealer. I.e., no factory warrantee, no support.

A guitar from MIRC was received from the factory and then may have been assembled from parts, repaired, or just sold as-is.
I never saw anything indicating they actually built guitars from parts there.
They appeared to be Fender's "go-to" for selling of seconds/warranty returns, and liquidation of unsold inventory from Corona and Tacoma, the "liquidated" inventory is probably what didn't need any actual repairs, they just didn't qualify for warranty because of the price Fender liquidated 'em at.
They weren't going to undertake warranty liability on guitars they sold at, presumably, a loss.
When the Corona MIRC's were still showing up back when I joined here, disingenuous on-line sellers used to describe them as "inspected by my luthier" using verbiage borrowed almost verbatim from MIRC's site at the time.
They created the impression that they were original owners as opposed to dealers re-selling refurbished items.

I cannot vouch for the other factories, though.
See above notes.
We know, for example, that a bunch of bad guitars were sold through MIRC at the closing of Tacoma -- a real stain on the brand, if you ask me.
Just want to clarify for Doug that this was a Fender issue not an MIRC issue, and was most identified with the Tacoma "Contemporary series" guitars.
An old thread here goes into great detail about one member's problems with on of them, which was ultimately ascribed to the guitar having been built with green neck wood, causing the neck to twist as it aged.
And we've seen several since then that showed evidence of MIRC having actually made adjustments on those models.
As for Ensenada, I have no idea what would've triggered a sale through MIRC.
Fender's sale of the brand to Cordoba seems the obvious reason.
They all had Guild logos but Cordoba didn't want 'em. (Presumably because they already had their own archbacks coming in the Westerly Collection)
I assume there my have been some seconds in there but it appears the ones reported here are examples of instruments that were simply liquidated and not needing any actual re-work.
The benefit of liquidation to Fender is that they unload a bunch of inventory at one fell swoop with out having to store it and piece-meal it out over time.
All of which simply adds to the total cost of the inventory, and which Fender could ill afford to bear in 2014.
 

fronobulax

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Even though it sounds great, it's not my style. Did Guild ever make an orchestra sized cutaway with 1 3/4 nut made in USA?

Going from memory, the New Hartford F-30 Standard (not Traditional) series had an 1 3/4" nut. So that gets you orchestra size and MIA. I don't recall how long but there were cutaways, The model number would have has a C. I don't recall whether you could get a cutaway without a factory pickup but CE designated cutaway and electronics.

Here is a link to a New Hartford F-30 RCE (rosewood) from three years ago.

https://reverb.com/item/605103-guild-f30-rce-antique-burst-cutaway-d-tar-hsc

Union Music has sold a lot of Guilds to LTG members but the owner retired and I'm not sure how much experience we have with the new management. I'm sure some of the Massachusetts members will correct me if I have mis-remembered something :)
 

dougdnh

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That Guild F-30RCE , along with a Guild Nightingale would be my two dream guitars. Thanks for the lead!
 

adorshki

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I think that's what happened with the Tacoma shutdown, Al, but I'm not sure. That's why all those crappy products hit the market.

After this percolated in my brain for a while, I realized that the aforementioned Tacoma Contemporarys might be the one instrument that they would have been willing to "assemble" from parts because of the bolt-on necks, and even seem to recall a reference to them having spare necks available as parts for a while there, when replacing a green/twisted neck was seen as a possible way to, er, reclaim an otherwise perfectly desirable piece......betcha that's why you were thinking that.
:friendly_wink:

I even remember you had one of 'em, but wasn't it a regular factory "first"?
Otherwise everything I found about 'em indicates "repair only".
Even found this thread from 2015 on a Gretsch forum with some corroborating comments from our own Drumbob:
http://www.gretsch-talk.com/threads/mirc-defacing-guitars.132997/
Warning:
Torch and pitchfork mentality in evidence, there.
:eek:
And to top it all off, those Arcos guitars had bolt-on necks, too....and MIRC proudly proclaims its neck repair service on their home page, now....
 

richardp69

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Good Golly Miss Molly. WE Have A Winner. Just got back from my Luthier with a fresh set up on the MexiGuild Jumbo I recently bought off Ebay. He also replaced the lame light gauge strings with some beefy mediums and I am a more than happy player now. Lots of volume and really nice sound/tone to boot. If this guitar is any indication of other MexiGuilds I won't hesitate to buy again for sure.
 

PittPastor

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I'm glad this worked out for you!

I took my MIM to Stuart Day this past weekend. In addition to the crack in the flattop, the split damaged two of the braces (or maybe they failed, which led to the split? Who know?)

The repair is $175 (although that price does include a setup). I realize that this happened as the winter set in and the heater started kicking on which dried the air in my house. But, it should be noted that my 36 year old D40C, my 40 year old Mark II were in the same house, and they are fine.

I don't blame it on Mexico vs American wood (btw, my 4 year old MIK Savoy is fine as well...). I do think that since this guitar was sent off as part of the test and refurbish inventory when Fender jettisoned Guild, it probably sat in some very undesirable warehouses, etc. A MIM that was bought and kept by a player in a controlled environment probably would be much better. But I do suspect that the wood/craftsmanship of my Westerly Guilds is better than the Archos MIM.

Interestingly, when I first inspected the guitar -- before I even took it to be evaluated by an expert, I was concerned by the exact "wood grain" that later cracked. In hindsight I think I should have shipped it back at that very moment.

All that being said, I am happy you found a keeper.
 

adorshki

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But I do suspect that the wood/craftsmanship of my Westerly Guilds is better than the Archos MIM.
Westerly had very very good wood thanks to Willie Fritscher:
http://www.westerlyguildguitars.com/articles/woodselection.pdf
And it's been discussed before how particularly good Westerly's wood was, especially the top woods:
Really nice tight-grained sitka with plenty of silking in evidence on just about everything you see listed on the 'net, and some absolutely stunning maple was in evidence in late Westerly.
Also, according to an article in Guild Gallery #1 ('97), as guitars moved down the line in Westerly, each station vetted the work of the previous station and sent a piece back for rework if needed.
Don't know if that actually happened in Ensenada but it would surprise me if it did.
Not a knock on 'em, just an educated guess about one of the ways costs were kept down, compared to US-built product.
(There's videos of an Ensenada factory tour around here IIRC, but I never watched 'em)
And to be fair, Fender told one of the Let's Meet Guild groups that they actually selected and delivered the wood sent to China for the GAD line in order to ensure their own quality standards were maintained, so it wouldn't surprise me if that applied in Ensenada as well, and we've seen praise for the GAD wood compared to the competition at the price point.
Final thing to bear in mind is that much like the GAD line, the Arcos guitars were designed produced and marketed purely by Fender Corporate, the US Guild shops never had anything to do with 'em, they just shared the logo because after all Fender did own the brand name at the time and could do with it as they pleased..
 

fronobulax

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Final thing to bear in mind is that much like the GAD line, the Arcos guitars were designed produced and marketed purely by Fender Corporate, the US Guild shops never had anything to do with 'em, they just shared the logo because after all Fender did own the brand name at the time and could do with it as they pleased..

I think you are factually correct but this is somewhat confusing.

FMIC did not operate Guild (or any of the other subordinate brands) as separate independent entities. Neither did everyone whose work was primarily on behalf of Guild have an office or home base at a U.S. factory that made Guilds.

I can only speak for New Hartford but, to the extent that my memory is correct, at least one of the Guild Brand Managers - the person in charge of overall product line and marketing - was based in Scottsdale and visited the factory as needed. The people operating the factory contributed design and build expertise to other FMIC brands and the builders did not exclusively work on Guilds. The person who told LMG that FMIC selected and shipped wood to China for use in the MIC Guilds wore a FMIC employee badge. The person I talked to about Starfire Bass pickups and locations wore an FMIC badge but in retrospect I suspect he was on the team working on the Newark Street line.

While your statement that "the Arcos guitars were designed produced and marketed purely by Fender Corporate" may be literally true I think it is irrelevant and misleading. The separation between "Guild" and "Fender Corporate" was always somewhat blurry and I would argue the separation as you want to define it did not even exist during the New Hartford years.
 
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