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Thread: Finally Getting the D40C fixed -- Any suggestions for Add-ons (including new Pickup)

  1. #11
    Senior Member PittPastor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adorshki View Post
    Worf approves.
    Ha. Yeah -- the unfortunately named Cling-on. Hey, it won best of show in NAMM 2018. IDK, I got it for my Mark II originally. It seems OK for a stickon Piezo.
    ----------------------------------
    1980 Guild D40C Sunburst
    1978 Guild Mark II Classical
    20?? Guild AO-3CE (MIM)
    2014 Guild Savoy 150A Sunburst (MIK)

    Soundcloud - Cat's In The Crade (D40C)

  2. #12
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    I have Dazzos in five guitars, including my D 35. I have recently bought SunnAudio Stage DI. This combination was made to work together, and boy does it ever.

  3. #13
    Senior Member PittPastor's Avatar
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    For anyone who might be following this, I am not doing what I thought I was doing to the D40C.

    Here's some back and forth I have had with Stuart. One of the reasons I like dealing with him is that he always seems more concerned in doing what is right for the guitar. Regardless of how much money he'll make on the repair. He's like a guitar advocate.

    This email from him started it:

    Quick question before I move forward... You said you like where the action is now on the D-40…. Can I ask then why you want to do the neck re-set in the first place? I mean, the neck is underset. I can see that…. But if the guitar is playing for you the way you like it I’m wondering what is the motivation for going through with the neck re-set?
    I ask because neck re-sets are big jobs, particularly on guilds, they have the possibility of opening up into issues
    My response was that it wasn't the lack of volume, nor the action that created the concern, but the compression of the wood in the soundhole. My thinking was the guitar was made, and internally supported, for the pressure from the neck at one angle, and that the extra pressure coming from the misalignment could be adding to the problem with the wood.

    He replied that the neck reset would not affect the wood compression issue much, if at all. Although in theory it could help, there is also the issue that wood has memory and wood that has been a certain way for almost 40 years could very well fight to get back that way regardless.

    He said if money was no object, what should be done is a neck reset. Any issues that popped up he could deal with and in the end I would have a better guitar. The question then became: How much was I willing to pay? And, since my budget is not unlimited, that made me think. I asked him more about what sort of issues might crop up. And he said this:

    A neck reset would be the “correct” repair for this guitar. From the perspective of “proper” lutherie and perpetuity and collectability/resale value. Under normal circumstance that would be my recommendation.
    BUT For this specific guitar we have
    a- finish over the neck joint which can turn into a lot of finish touch up work which is billed by the hour
    b-the neck is only slightly underset
    c- it is a guild… the problem with guilds is that they finished the guitars with the neck on the body, they used a very difficult glue (and a lot of it) to glue the neck on, and their dovetails are often all over the place, which means that there is a risk of delaminating the neck which again turns into a big big job.
    He then countered with this rather creative idea:

    Here is something for you to consider: We could shave the bridge.
    Normally I wouldn’t suggest this. Its not really what I usually consider to be the “correct” repair. Particularly if a guitar has some note or value beyond sentiment or subjective love. However… In this guitar's case it may be a good choice and here is why I come to that conclusion:

    1- you say you like the guitar set up. I think the action could come down a little further, personally, but if you are happy with it or just would like a slight adjustment then that's not really a justification for one of the most serious repair jobs we can do.

    2- the neck is underset by about .030”. Thats not a lot. Its enough to cause issues with action adjustment and saddle height but its not a lot. So… again, stepping into a very difficult repair job that could potentially be a can of worms… it might not be justified with such a small underset.

    3- the guitar is overbuilt. Late 70’s through the 80’s guilds were all pretty much very over built. Huge braces, thick tops etc… so shaving the bridge down may actually improve the tone of this guitar by removing a little mass from the top.

    So… like I said… normally it wouldn’t be my suggestion. But given all these factors… the guitar, the minimal underset, and the fact that you do like it as is… I’m not sure a neck re-set is the best choice. So as long as re-sale value and collectability are not priorities for you… what we could do instead is I could remove .030” from the top of the bridge, do the bone nut and saddle, and give it a good set up and call it a day.
    It is entirely up to you. If you want the neck reset, I can do it as well as handling anything else that comes up. I just wanted you to know all of your options.
    The bridge work is not reversible -- tho as I have said, due the the crack in the side of this guitar I'm not sure I could sell it for much, even if I wanted to (which I don't). If we decided to go with a neck reset in the future, Stuart can make a bridge pretty much identical to the one we are shaving, so we can get it back to original specs if that becomes an issue.

    The rippling around the rosette is still pretty surface related and is not affecting the tone or structure. Stuart believes if I keep this in a properly humidified case, I wouldn't notice any more movement in my lifetime, probably.

    Given all of this, I am opting for leaving the neck position where it is and letting him do the other modifications. I am also having the Fishman Matrix removed. I'm going to probably package that with the Aura pedal I have and see if anyone on eBay wants it. I don't need to plug this guitar in any more. So, I'm going to let it stay pure acoustic.

    For now...

    Last edited by PittPastor; 07-12-2018 at 02:22 PM.
    ----------------------------------
    1980 Guild D40C Sunburst
    1978 Guild Mark II Classical
    20?? Guild AO-3CE (MIM)
    2014 Guild Savoy 150A Sunburst (MIK)

    Soundcloud - Cat's In The Crade (D40C)

  4. #14
    Senior Member adorshki's Avatar
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    I'm following it and I think I liked Stuart the first time and I like him even better now.
    He's spot on about those Guild-specific issues and even that potential for de-lamination of the neck was a new one to me.
    I'm mildly surprised about the comment that removing a bit of mass from bridge might actually help the top, I'd think if it was "overbuilt" (which again is true to their rep from that period), then a little more mass is what would help the top move.
    But he's the expert here so I'll try to remember that.
    Only 2 things I can think of that you may also want to explore by asking him:
    Would he think a Bridge Doctor might be a good stabilization technique for that dip in the top?
    It's supposed to enhance tone as well, but is does require either a bridge mod or special bridge pin depending on the version (which may not be a bad thing if you're going to shave it a bit anyway).
    Second what about a little bit of shaving of braces to help the top move?
    And last, a bridge shave is reversible in the sense that a new bridge can be installed at some point if desired, but it's possible (even likely) the one that's on there now is actually Brazilian and might be hard to replace with real Braz down the road.
    Although Guild stopped using Braz for backs and sides by about '73-'74, they still had plenty of stock suitable for bridges and fretboards even into the early '80's.
    Hans might actually be able to help you there, in fact, in case you want to acquire a "genuine" spare.
    I think this is one of those cases where shaving the bridge is justified in the big picture especially compared to the minimal benefit to be gained from a neck re-set.
    Al
    "Time May Change the Technique of Music But Never Its Mission " - Rachmaninoff
    My 1st Guild: '96 Westerly D25NT "Hally" (10-31-96 stamped on heelblock)
    #2: '01 Westerly F65ce "Blondie"
    #3: '03 Corona D40e Richie Havens "Richie"
    All bought new!

  5. #15
    Senior Member PittPastor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adorshki View Post
    Only 2 things I can think of that you may also want to explore by asking him:
    Would he think a Bridge Doctor might be a good stabilization technique for that dip in the top?
    It's supposed to enhance tone as well, but is does require either a bridge mod or special bridge pin depending on the version (which may not be a bad thing if you're going to shave it a bit anyway).
    Second what about a little bit of shaving of braces to help the top move?
    That's good stuff adorshki, thanks. I'll ask him!
    ----------------------------------
    1980 Guild D40C Sunburst
    1978 Guild Mark II Classical
    20?? Guild AO-3CE (MIM)
    2014 Guild Savoy 150A Sunburst (MIK)

    Soundcloud - Cat's In The Crade (D40C)

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by adorshki View Post
    Only 2 things I can think of that you may also want to explore by asking him:
    Would he think a Bridge Doctor might be a good stabilization technique for that dip in the top?
    It's supposed to enhance tone as well, but is does require either a bridge mod or special bridge pin depending on the version (which may not be a bad thing if you're going to shave it a bit anyway.
    Al, if I remember correctly, the bridge doctor is mainly used to address bellying issues adjacent to the bridge area.

    While I don't have the vision to locate the rippling in the rosette area referred to by the OP in the pic, the sharp Florentine cutaway has been known to affect the adjacent upper areas as guitars age over the years, sometimes with a neck twist and/or block slippage.

    If the luthier doesn't think it's a problem, likely it isn't at this time.

  7. #17
    Senior Member adorshki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuildFS4612CE View Post
    Al, if I remember correctly, the bridge doctor is mainly used to address bellying issues adjacent to the bridge area.
    Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by GuildFS4612CE View Post
    While I don't have the vision to locate the rippling in the rosette area referred to by the OP in the pic,
    Had forgotten bout that, I was thinking "dip in front of bridge".
    Quote Originally Posted by GuildFS4612CE View Post
    the sharp Florentine cutaway has been known to affect the adjacent upper areas as guitars age over the years, sometimes with a neck twist and/or block slippage
    That occurred to me last night as well but didn't know if it was a "real" potential issue.
    Thanks!
    Al
    "Time May Change the Technique of Music But Never Its Mission " - Rachmaninoff
    My 1st Guild: '96 Westerly D25NT "Hally" (10-31-96 stamped on heelblock)
    #2: '01 Westerly F65ce "Blondie"
    #3: '03 Corona D40e Richie Havens "Richie"
    All bought new!

  8. #18
    Senior Member PittPastor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuildFS4612CE View Post
    While I don't have the vision to locate the rippling in the rosette area referred to by the OP in the pic, the sharp Florentine cutaway has been known to affect the adjacent upper areas as guitars age over the years, sometimes with a neck twist and/or block slippage.
    That's interesting. Is that because they have to move some bracing on the cutaway?
    ----------------------------------
    1980 Guild D40C Sunburst
    1978 Guild Mark II Classical
    20?? Guild AO-3CE (MIM)
    2014 Guild Savoy 150A Sunburst (MIK)

    Soundcloud - Cat's In The Crade (D40C)

  9. #19
    Your luthier could probably give a good explanation(s) but think of it as: for every action, there is a reaction...stresses are complicated...as are guitars.

  10. #20
    Senior Member adorshki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PittPastor View Post
    That's interesting. Is that because they have to move some bracing on the cutaway?
    Courtesy member Gardman:

    From here:
    http://www.letstalkguild.com/ltg/sho...95-REDUX/page2
    You can imagine what they may have done and how the top may have reacted over time.
    If you have an inspection mirror you could take a look yourself, or else I'm sure Stuart has one.
    THE cutaway dreadnought body was invented at Guild by the way, I don't remember if I mentioned that when you first joined up.
    I forget the gentleman's name but he even joined and posted here a few years back.
    Anyway, the point being all the potential long-term ramifications were completely unknown at the time ('76), and I suspect he started designing around the popsicle-stick style bracing but it's possible they'd already graduated to the "wing" bracing style with the neck block extension when he started.\
    Yo can almost visualize how the different techniques might influence top "ripple", seems it would be much more susceptible with the popsicle stick brace and soundhole bracing "cut off". (I suspect soundhole brace gets re-located in a cutaway)
    But like Jan said it stress is complicated because the tension on any single element is affected by the tension of the stuff it's attached to, just to start.
    Last edited by adorshki; 07-13-2018 at 08:26 PM.
    Al
    "Time May Change the Technique of Music But Never Its Mission " - Rachmaninoff
    My 1st Guild: '96 Westerly D25NT "Hally" (10-31-96 stamped on heelblock)
    #2: '01 Westerly F65ce "Blondie"
    #3: '03 Corona D40e Richie Havens "Richie"
    All bought new!

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