Stainless steel frets on a Guild F4CE.

Stelios Nikolidakis

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Hi there,
I 'm a happy owner of 2 Guild F4CE, an S4CE, an F65CE and a D412, all Westerlies.
A couple of months ago I decided to get the frets of my "Nefeli" F4CE replaced with stainless steels.
Unfortunately sound has changed dramatically both plugged & unplugged..
Her amazing full mids are lost, sounding now too thin & crispy, giving me a hard time to cut through the mix on lives (no matter how much I try to fix it by EQ).
So trying to avoid to re-replace the frets with nickel-silver, I started to experiment with different kinds of strings, in order to approach her original & ideal for my taste & playing style sound. So far, I tried Ernie Ball Earthwood 80-20, Martin Retro & GHS signature LJ Phosphor Bronze, being satisfied by none.
I now lean to more mellow-soft strings (but with as full mids as possible) thinking that ss frets are harder than nickel-silver, hoping to get that balanced tone again.
I would appreciate any suggestion considering all the above (especially if someone has had a similar experience so far).
Which strings do you think would suit my Nefeli now?
Finally I would like to know which strings are your favourites for the above models I wrote.
Please forgive my not so good english.
Thank you.

Stelios Nikolidakis
 

adorshki

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NO worries about your English, Stelios!
BTW I'm happy to see you still have your F65ce.
Sadly I don't think you're really going to be able to cure the zing of those SS frets with strings alone, but I'd actually suggest trying silk'n'steels to have any chance of getting back a "warm" tone.
Even then, you've still got metal treble strings.
It just occured to me you might even want to consider (gasp!) coated strings.
My favorites for dreadnoughts are D'Addario EJ-16 (uncoated pb lights and Guild's standard on virtually all models in the '90's (except 12-ers and F65ce).
I know for sure my F65ce came with extra lights (.010-.047 uncoated pb) and I still use those, but I don't know if that was true of the other "F-ce" models.
I have been considering trying some silk'n'steels on my F65ce just to see if I might like 'em a little better, maybe get a little more "woody" tone out of it.
 

CosmicArkie

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Welcome, Stelios, from another double F4CE owner.

I might be way off base, but I get the impression that you are concerned with your amplified tone, yes? Could it be that you are looking at the wrong end of the telescope? If all the assorted strings you have tried are all giving the same results, maybe something occurred during the work that altered the relationship between the UST and the saddle. It might be as simple as that.
 

txbumper57

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Welcome Stelios! Seeing as you are experiencing the lack of warmth both plugged in and unplugged I would try some coated strings like previously mentioned. Daddario EXP16's are light gauge Coated Phosphor Bronze and EXP17's are the medium gauge version of the same. Elixir Nanowebs may be too bright with the Stainless frets but you could try a set of the Elixir Polyweb coated strings as they should knock that Zing down considerably. Just don;t know if they are going to have enough warmth to them to get you back where you were before the fret material change.

Sadly I honestly think the only thing that will get you back 100% to that sound you had before is replacing the frets with the original material that they were before the Stainless Steel switch. You could spend the same amount of money chasing strings to try and get the tone back as you would for a refret with the Nickel Silver frets and never achieve your goal. Kind of a catch 22 situation.

Best of Luck and let us know how it all turns out!

TX
 

swiveltung

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I think coated strings will get rid of some of that sparkle. It may take a gig or two for them to tame it.
 

Stelios Nikolidakis

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Wow Adorshki what a memory you have! Yes still have the F65CE and not willing to let her go..
Haven't tried any other sets on Nefeli since I wrote here but thanx for sharing your opinion & favourite strings.
I play 12s on all my guitars.
If u try those silks on your F65CE, let me know how you like them.
 

Stelios Nikolidakis

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Hi CosmicArkie,

nice to hear from another F4CE (double) owner. one of the most underrated acoustic ever.
I was referring to alteration on both tones, natural & amplified. Electronics work just fine & pressure on piezo is even to all strings.
 

Stelios Nikolidakis

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Hi txbumper57 & thank u too for your response.
Hm...maybe coated strings is the solution.
Just to know, before the refret, I loved 80/20 on Nefeli. Now they are horrible.No mids, muddy bass & too zinky trebles.
Yes, this is what I was thinkin too.. Maybe a second refret (with nickel-silver this time) is the best & most affordable solution.
Of course I'll let you know how it goes.
 

adorshki

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Wow Adorshki what a memory you have!
Actually I looked at your previous posts when I realized you weren't actually a "new" member... :friendly_wink:

Yes still have the F65CE and not willing to let her go..
Haven't tried any other sets on Nefeli since I wrote here but thanx for sharing your opinion & favourite strings.
I play 12s on all my guitars.
If u try those silks on your F65CE, let me know how you like them.
After seeing your further comments on what happened to the tone after your refret, I recalled what the luthier said when I got the second refret on my D25: he asked if I was interested in the longevity of SS frets, but he cautioned me they may sound too "metallic" for my tastes.
Since I like as much "wood" in my tone as possible, I stuck with the known capability of the original nickel-silver blend.
I wouldn't have suspected such an effect on tone as you describe, but on reflection, I think they really are the problem: The hardness of the steel probably absorbs those frequencies you're missing now, making the overall tone "zingier".
RE silks on F65ce, went to do it this weekend and discovered I didn't have the set of S'n'S I thought I had stashed.
Will keep you posted.
 

Stelios Nikolidakis

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Actually I looked at your previous posts

Ha ha ha! Gotcha :victorious:

Totally agree with you..From the moment I played Nefeli after the refret, I knew frets were the problem..
I 've (almost) decided to call my luthier soon & get ready for a re-refret. :torn:
We 'll be in touch soon.
 

Stelios Nikolidakis

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Thank you adorshki. Well, I learned my lesson.. Never again ss frets on any of my acoustic guitars.
I hope this thread will help (discourage) others who (like me) will find it a good idea to replace their ns frets with ss.
 

adorshki

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Thank you adorshki. Well, I learned my lesson.. Never again ss frets on any of my acoustic guitars.
I hope this thread will help (discourage) others who (like me) will find it a good idea to replace their ns frets with ss.

Yep, valuable input.
Interestingly and for "balance", I believe one of our members, 6L6 actually got SS frets installed on his ('74 IIRC) D40 years ago for precisely the longevity reason and is apparently quite happy with the results.
 

Rayk

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Evo Gold frets give the wearability of stainless but leans more towards the nickel. Edit ( lol let me add towardsthe tone of nickle frets ) . But thier gold so .... I like gold lol :)
 
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kostask

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Just as an idea, and much cheaper than a refret, so worth a try, would be to go to medium strings, probably in regular phosphor bronze vs. 80/20. You will see a reduction i ath the high end, which from what I am reading is what the problem is. Sort of addressing the balance between high end the mid/low end.
 
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